Cripple Fight! - And the Lame shall inherit the earth!

[tgbob]

I have W gems, oh wait.

[Frozen Lama]

geez, Ermor has really been fighting the good fight this game. under attack from multiple enemys pretty much the whole game, and still winning.

Congrats Calahan!

oh and Abysia is still looking to buy Fire gems from people

[Zeldor]

They were faking it, I guess. Dunno what was happening there earlier really, but now some action is happening at last

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

geez, Ermor has really been fighting the good fight this game. under attack from multiple enemys pretty much the whole game, and still winning.

Congrats Calahan!

oh and Abysia is still looking to buy Fire gems from people

Cheers Frozen Lama.

Was touch and go for a while, but I've definitely done a full bounce off the ropes now, and currently charging pell-mell towards the centre of the ring

Although one of my opponents being unable to accept losing, and just quitting to the AI played some part in it.

[Jazzepi]

Originally Posted by Calahan

Cheers Frozen Lama.

Was touch and go for a while, but I've definitely done a full bounce off the ropes now, and currently charging pell-mell towards the centre of the ring

Although one of my opponents being unable to accept losing, and just quitting to the AI played some part in it.

Actually, I quit because the whole process of playing LA Atlantis was extremely frustrating, instead of being fun which is why I play this game. While I thought it might have been interesting to play an "underdog" nation, Atlantis is just absolute garbage. They have awfully expensive recruitables, and I actually can't think of a nation with worse mages (woo-hoo, W1D1H1 in all but capital). I also went a non-bless route, which only made it worse.

But really, don't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. I generally stick around, even when being run over roughshod (go look at first or third mega game), but in this case submitting turns would have just been an exercise in frustration. At some point, I really don't care if it makes the game harder for other people (and easier for some), I'm not going to drag myself through the mud to do exactly what the AI would do; lose.

Jazzepi

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

But really, don't speak when you don't know what you're talking about. I generally stick around, even when being run over roughshod (go look at first or third mega game), but in this case submitting turns would have just been an exercise in frustration. At some point, I really don't care if it makes the game harder for other people (and easier for some), I'm not going to drag myself through the mud to do exactly what the AI would do; lose.

Jazzepi

Maybe you are right, maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. It's happened before. It can happen again. But all I saw in this game is someone who lost a big fight, and then quit immediately after it. And I might add, without even so much as a polite message informing the other players that you were doing so. You say LA Atlantis is no fun, but you chose to play them, and many other players really enjoy playing them (Baalz for one I believe). So maybe they are not fun for you because you find it hard to win with them.

I also notice you recently went AI in the 'Beyond' game, and upon checking the llamascores, your nation of C'tis (which the game status page says you were playing in that game) had a huge load of provinces and gem income at the time. Still does in fact, even with the AI in charge.

'Beyond' thread - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42374
'Beyond' llamascores - http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=Beyond

Of course I do not know the whole story of the 'Beyond' game, but to my way of thinking, quitting in such a position (high province/forts/gems) is completely unthinkable, and destroys the balance of the game for the other players. And to be honest I dislike playing in games with any players who think it is acceptable to destroy the balance of the game by suddenly quitting, because I view that as a very selfish act which strongly diminishes that games enjoyment for others. That of course is just my opinion.

But I know for certain I would have struggled far more in this game, and probably have already lost, if LA Atlantis had been human controlled. So this has subsequently hurt my other two enemies Gath+Bogarus. So that is myself, 'Alpine Joe' and 'viccio' all affected because you quit to the AI, plus all the other fine 'Cripple Fight' players of course who now have an alive EA Ermor in the game when they should have had a dead EA Ermor.

To me these two incidents are not the actions of someone who claims to stick around and fight until the bitter end. If I am wrong then I apologise unreservedly, but I can only go by what I see, and what I see is someone who has quit two games because they were in the very early stages of losing a war. Although in the 'Cripple Fight' case you weren't even losing the war, you just lost a big fight.

We all play this game for fun, but some people only consider something fun if they are winning or succeeding.

[Jazzepi]

No, let me repeat again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I hung around for several turns waiting for anyone to respond and offer some help agaisnt Pythium in Beyond which I posted in the thread. Nobody sent me a single message. I had /hundreds/ of gems to offer in payment or support, and I tried to defend myself agaisnt Pythium, but I had no SCs after a protracted war with Neiflhem, and I had nothing to throw agaisnt armies sporting fog warriors, lots of artifacts (including medusa shield on his uber-buff pretender and sword of alguemereter) and tons of troops. I also had very low research.

Frankly, if people are completely unwilling to offer *any* support when Pythium is devouring one of the largest nations in the game, and I'm /telling them/ that they're going to lose if they don't rally right away, then they don't deserve to win, and I don't feel bad about setting myself to AI. I'm not going to hold out agaisnt an impossible enemy for other people who simply don't care about their long term stakes.

The crux of what you're saying is that I leave when I'm losing, but you're biased because I went AI in two /recent/ games. What you haven't done is actually looked at the large sample of other games where I've played to the bitter end. I got dogpiled by four different nations in the first epic game, and I fought to the very, very bitter end. But you could find this information out yourself if you did a little digging. I don't need to prove it to you, it's all there in the threads.

You're biased by recent events because that's how people work. Try asking someone if there are more Rs at the beginning of English words or at the third position. They'll say the first because it's easier to recall words that begin with R regardless of the actual distribution. Airplane travel gets an unsafe rep for the same reason. People remember the disastrous failures, not the many repeated successes.

Lastly, I was /never/ allies with any of the other nations attacking you besides the fact that it was convenient. I never traded with them, I only signed an NAP with the giants, and we never communicated about attacks or offense. It was largely a free form deal.

So, get your facts straight before you libel someone, I've been here for a very, very long time, and I don't need you trying to give me a bad rep for bogus reasons that you haven't investigated.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

And just for reference's sake, in case there is any doubt that I didn't give sufficent warning to the rest of the players in Beyond that they were going to get steam rolled by Pythium.

"Oh god.

C'Tis is being raped by Pythium.

As a warning to the rest of you.

He has the gorgon shield, sword of algurematur (or however you spell that), the death gem scythe. I'm sure he has the chalice and many other artifacts. He also has an air queen, an earth king, an SC God, and a tartarian.

If someone can put some serious hurt on Pythium, ASAP, I would be willing to pay. C'Tis has 600 or so gems just sitting around doing nothing, plus cash.

Otherwise we'll simply do our best to hold back Pythium. But this fight isn't going to last very long.

Be careful of earthquake, fog warriors, and ridiculous *** beatings.

If no one moves agaisnt Pythium, and soon, he'll control a huge amount of gem income, some important discount sites, and three capitals (mine, Caelum's, Nieflhem's)"

and then later

"I'm probably just going to set myself to AI. Nobody has offered any real assistance, and once I'm gone Pythium will have won the game."

that post was met with zero objections from the rest of the players in Beyond

Jazzepi

[Calahan]

Yes I have based my conclusions on recent examples, as that's all I had to go on. Two examples, two incidents of you turning quickly to AI. I could trawl through all your posts from your previous games to find counter evidence, and maybe I will if I find the time, or have the desire to. And those examples may well change my opinion. But if anyone wishes to change someone else's opinion of them, it is usually they themselves who have to put the effort in, not the other way around. I never stick doggedly to one view-point if there is strong evidence to suggest my views are wrong. But at the moment I have no counter-evidence so........

I seen your post on the 'Beyond' thread, and to me it only backs up my view point. You asked for help in fighting Pythium, nobody responded, so you quit. Nobody has any obligations to help you fight your wars, and they will only do so if it's in their best interests. Deal with it. Also, maybe they couldn't help you at the time you asked, but could have a few turns down the line. But you didn't exactly stay around to find out did you?

And to quote

Originally Posted by Jazzepi

Otherwise we'll simply do our best to hold back Pythium.

So your best attempt at holding back Pythium was turning AI was it?


You are a very experienced player Jazzepi, far more-so than me, and you have been playing MP Dominions a lot longer than I have. You are also a very fine player, and again probably far better than I am. None of these things I am questioning or disputing. But I don't see how that makes my views any less valid than another persons on this issue. Since we are not discussing finer tactical / strategic points of the game itself, as what we are discussing is more along the lines of polite game etiquette. But if you are so experienced, then surely you must know how much players turning AI spoils the game for others? And I'm sorry, but there is no way you can argue that turning AI at any point has 'no' impact on a game, because it has spoilt every game I have ever played in at one stage or another.

I believe that when a player signs up for a game, they are making a commitment to that game. A commitment to play fairly by the rules of the game, and to ensure as best they can that their actions help others to enjoy the game (in a broad sense). As in theory, if everyone does that, everyone will enjoy the game And to me this commitment doesn't end the moment a player is no longer having (their type of) 'fun'. Again this is just my opinion, and may very well differ to the opinion of others.

It is understandable that nobody wants to acquire any bad reputation, but everyone is free to make their owns judgements on each and every person they encounter in life. I have done so here. You have quit two recent games I can see, one I was involved in, and I know first hand the consequences of your actions in that game as a result. It was not a positive consequence.

So because of this my first impression of you (purely as a Dominions player) is someone who quits games quickly when things go against them, and who doesn't mind if they spoil the enjoyment of these games for others. How can I conclude otherwise? This impression I have can / maybe will, change, but it won't happen without a reason. And at the end of the day, if you don't like other players thinking you are a quitter in games, then don't quit games. That appears to be the most logical solution to me.

[Jazzepi]

You expect me to do more for people in Beyond, then they are willing to do for me, or even themselves.

Had I fought Pythium one-on-one, I would have been decimated very quickly, and Pythium would have double his own gem income with something like 8 capitals under his belt, not to mention the fact that my territory was growth 3.

Like I said in my original post, if I fell, everyone else was going to lose. There's no difference between me going AI, and condemning everyone else, and me not going AI and losing a protracted fight to him one-on-one where he /still wins/. In either case, the net result is that Pythium wins the game. You might be able not see that, but I don't really care, you were never part of the game, and nobody else raised any objections when I said I was going to go AI. You're also not as experienced, nor did you see the individual battles.

Your conclusions are based on only two games, where I happened to go AI with very good reason. If you even bothered to look at other games I've played in, and I've told you where to do so, you'd have a very different opinion, but really, feel free to wallow in your own ignorance since you so clearly enjoy doing so. I bet you think that if you flip a coin once, and it comes up heads, it must /ALWAYS/ come up heads.

Jazzepi