MA Argatha - go punch a mountain

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by Meglobob

Good guide Baalz.

However, I would like to point out a fatal flaw with this Ma Agartha guide and that is Ma Caelum. If I was playing Ma Caelum and was next door to a Ma Agartha with cold 3 and lots of statues I would be laughing all the way to Ma Agarthas capital and that very pleasent E income it has.

Lightning will wipe the floor with most of the golem cult and the mechanical men will be defeated easily by Caelums troops in cold 3 dominion.

So if you use the build you after be very friendly with Caelum, hope its not in the game or starting along way from you. Even other nations like Eriu, Vanheim, Man and T'ien Ch'i may well fancy there chances in the early to mid game vs this Ma Agartha build. Also, Jotunheim may do okay with its CR and heavy hitting power.

Ma Agartha has a hard time of it in the Ma, as there are so many nations in the same age as you that can exploit the one dimensional nature of Ma Agartha.

Hmmmm, I'm curious Meglobob, what do you have in mind to field as Caelum against mechanical men with a couple golem crafters for support that so dominates them? To be sure, there's not much you can do against heavy lightning until you get there, which is one of the reasons it's your second target (and I can't really think of any reasonable way to do much before that point). Once you make it there though I actually think it's Caelum who's going to be hard core struggling in major fights even in cold-3 (raiding is, of course, a Caelum advantage against many nations). Mechanical men and weapons of sharpness are kind of implied to mostly be used together along with strength of giants, so those mechanical men are hitting for 22 AP damage, with a 14 defense, 18 protection and (in dominion) hitpoints in the teens while being immune to every spell Caelum can drop. Meanwhile the golem crafters (holding lighting rods to keep from being picked off as the only valid lighting targets) are relatively shortly coming online with magma eruptions/earthquakes or destruction/iron bane which the Caelum troops most definitely are *not* immune to, quickness is starting to be dropped on those mechanical men and rigormortis + penetration boosted curse of stones doesn't really need the grip of winter to cripple those high encumbrance flying heavies. What did you have in mind?

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by Dragar

If a statue with boosted hit points wanders into enemy dominion he keeps his HP because he doesn't heal, as baalz stated. Should you capture an enemy province with a lab, would his hit points then drop back to their base amount?

That would be a cunning trap, seed a lab into a province to be invaded, then attack the weakened army

Nope, for the lifeless units the hitpoints only ever go down from taking damage. They go up any turn they're at a friendly lab, the amount determined by your dominion (no bonus in a hostile one).

[Nasser]

post the most agarthan fan fic you got itt

[Baalz]

Originally Posted by alhorro

The main problem I see with this strategy is absolute lack of mobility. All that constructs and mages (except golems, but golems alone can't win the game for you) will be just crawling around, while majority of nations can easily outrun them. Who wants to fight that stone park if one can just avoid it with flighting/teleporting/stealthy/remote stuff until it'd be possible to destroy it with a proper SC? And if you want to push your mobility, you'd have to trade/alchemize/invest most of your E income.

Not entirely true. The big problem is that your mages are map move 1, your constructs and undead summons are (I believe) universally map move 3. If you spread your castles around your territory and thus have mages close to anywhere you need them, you can shuffle boosters/etc. around instantly in the labs to get what you need around. To move your units around is as easy as sticking a crown of command on...oh anything with good movement will do, a mound king has a movement of 4 and only costs 3 gems. True, you're always going to limp around your slow mages a bit, but cleverly deployed you certainly aren't 'crawling around' and 'easily outrun'. As to flying/teleporting/raiding stuff, a couple people have mentioned that. This is almost too easy - you've got golem crafters *everywhere* and boosters coming out your ears. Depends on what exactly is raiding you of course, but weapons of sharpness + strength of giants + legions of steel will sharply adjust peoples assessment of your PD. Bloodstone + earth boots + summon earth power = petrify. Drop weapons of sharpness first and that raiding SC is now paralyzed and being hacked with AP weapons. Blade wind, destruction, magma eruption....just sprinkle a couple of your golem crafters around scripted appropriately behind your PD and there's not much you have to worry about WRT raiding... Oh, and just one or two golems in your stable and you've got incredibly solid anti-raiders ready to drop. Later on earth attack is fabulous in this capacity.

[Baalz]

[quote=Fantomen;684194]

I´d Consider dom6 turmoil3 cold3 growth2 luck3 magic1 and f4 e4 s2 n4 b4.

You make a lot of very good points Fantomen, but though I agree a nature component would be very nice (and I tried to figure out how to squeeze one in myself) realize you're giving up rings of wizardry for 13 pearls with this build. That one item opens up so much versatility. I also find that adding more paths to the forge lord doesn't really scale as much as it initially seems like it would. Dirt cheap nature items seem nice until you realize that to forge one you're giving up a ring of wizardry or a crystal shield or a fire helm or a blood stone or a golem or...well, the point is you always have several very good potential uses for the forge lord every single turn which dilutes the advantage of more options. Not worthless to be sure, but each extra path has a diminishing return with an increasing relative cost. Still, a reasonable person could certainly go with your suggested build.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Baalz

Hmmmm, I'm curious Meglobob, what do you have in mind to field as Caelum against mechanical men with a couple golem crafters for support that so dominates them?

Lightning [orb lightning], Lightning [orb lightning], Lightning [orb lightning], retreat.

On the rare times that caelum loses, he's trading gold pieces for the gems required for agartha's summons.

[Dragar]

aren't mechanical men shock resistant?

[Meglobob]

Yes they are are 100% resistant to lightning, fire, posion and cold. However, one of there weaknesses (surprised no one said it) is they are size 2. No doubt caelum will have alot of expensive mammoths who after the expansion phase (or during) would love nothing more than to trample some size 2 mechanical men into the ground. Even with 16 hps from golem cult those mechanical men will be crushed, sure you will lose alot of mammoths but you want to lose them before mid game anyway because of the expensive upkeep.

Also, does weapons of sharpness make the weapons magical or does it just give armour piercing? If it does not make the mechanical mens broadsword magical then body ethereal on mammoths or caelum protection 20-22 (in cold 3) iceclads will defeat those mechanical men. Caelum can also bring quickness and luck to the party without any real effort.

Also, when spamming lightning doesn't the AI account for SR 100% and avoid targeting those, so would instead target those mages of yours? Not completely sure on this one, I am constantly forgetting and remembering Dominions rules.

Remember, everything I have said Caelum can do is gold recruitable. Pretty much everything you want Ma Agartha to do is via earth gems. You will run out of earth gems alot faster than Caelum runs out of gold.

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by Meglobob

Also, when spamming lightning doesn't the AI account for SR 100% and avoid targeting those, so would instead target those mages of yours? Not completely sure on this one, I am constantly forgetting and remembering Dominions rules.

Probably yes, since Baalz mentioned you have to forge lightning resistance items for the mages. Iron Rods are cheap, though.

Good points about mammoths and high-prot troops, although the protection Baalz's Agartha can deal with. Strength of Giants, Weapons of Sharpness, Acid spells, Armor of Achilles/Destruction, etc.

[vfb]

Seeking Arrow is good against Agartha if you're not seeing Ancient Oracles in the field. It's pretty painful for Agartha to watch an army of his Mechanical Men evaporate because his mages got turned into pincushions. You can sacrifice a scout in Agarthan territory and attack the province with orders to Holdx5 at the back; that's enough time for all the Mech men to die.