New chinese MBT

[SCAJolly]

Hehehe, it's rather fun to see threads such as this one take leaps where it does, over the fence and then back in.
I stumbled over this report from RAND, well actually the link was given to me by another. It might be interesting, sketching up the general perception of a conflict before the US might interrupt.
http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1217/
Here, one also discusses the issue of China not having the amphibious strength to launch an invasion. The idea is that after securing sea- and air superiority, a reverse Dunkerque (sp?) is launched! Quite interesting, all of this.
God, I hate these smileys...

[mosborne]

I think the comment "to what end" probably sums up the situation. It is ironic, since Chinese already conquered Taiwan, the losers took it when they lost the civil war in China. Now the winning side wants control of it. The operative word being "Control". I don't think it does the Chinese any good to ruin the Taiwan in its take over, no more than it would have made since for them to ruin Hong Kong in getting it back from the British. I would guess, that eventually, Tawain will go the way of Hong Kong. Just as it was mentioned that the US and China economies are intermixed, multiply that several times over when speaking of China and Taiwan. They are already one country but don't want to admit it yet. It would also eliminate a political hot spot for the US.

As for amphibious assault, I bet there have been many wars lost by assuming an opponent can't do something because they can't do the way they thought it should be done.

But I think I am contributing to getting this way off subject. I would be interested in knowing more about the new tank and its specs. Is there an official name for this tank now?

[Imp]

Some food for thought
China is I believe the richest nation in the world & since taking back Hong Kong has made major moves to improve trade & become a major player in the world.
It wants a voice thats listened to & yes may well be aiming to usurp the USA as the major power, do they have a plan for this?
Military spending means people take them seriosly.
Heavy spending of recent on tech esp stuff that addresses resources are running dry means they want to be at the forefront of replacement techs, plus the voice might mean they get a share of whats left.
On the political front I believe a huge chunk of USAs national debt is owed to guess who, not talking billions here keep going. This could be used as leverage or suppose they say give it back you have 10 years to repay.
Response we can't do it fine we now own a good part of the USA & can really get on with trading with the world.
Don't see how anyone can take Americas side they owe the money so if China says we will have the West coast at current land prices what happens exactly.
Why bother with Taiwan they need the space
Last time I looked USA was 1st China 2nd when it comes to GDP the diffrence is China has a huge profit while USA owes over 10 trillion or most of its GDP.
As a foot note I lived in Hong Kong when British ruled it & if China copies its economic model they are on a winner.
I could never figure out where all the money came from.
Tax free port for trade
Very good pay
Very low taxes you had to be a millionare to pay British basic tax rate perhaps because of this there are lots of them.
Still managed to pay millions to Britain.
Quality of life streets ahead of the UK.
Some people will say what about the poverty, not nearly as bad as you think & sorry if offend anyone but Chinese prefer to live in what we would call cramped conditions.
Whole families multi generation under one roof & they saved the pennies.
The modern Chinese has adopted Western trends more space & spends so Hong Kong has the highest percentage of luxury stuff like Rolls Royce in the world & your average Joe drives a Merc because they prefer them to BMWs.
To give you an idea project I was on had to relocate a poor village goverment gave each family a shop & each male got a BIG flat, all females got 1/2 a flat. They promptly sold them all exept the one the family moved into.
I was in goverment flats as working for my master bedroom was well over 16' square with 2 verandas & I used to start most days by swimming in the pool that serviced 16 flats.

I just state these as examples because if Chinas economic model is based on Hong Kong the world had better start paying attention & maybe the military spending is there to make sure it does

Edit just realised what forum this is in

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by SCAJolly

What I perhaps did not emphasize, or remember to point out, was that wars aren't fought unless there is a proper catalyst. Before the first world war, there had to be an assassination (remember how quiet and peaceful international politics looked the months ahead). Before the second world war, Hitler had to rise to power.

Not true. Before the first world war there were many years of sped up armaments purchases and developments, there was a fast high speed cold war in progress in Europe. Huge (for then) espionage activities and interception of mail from one embassy to the other (the first time officialy for the UK, among others) The assasination was not mainly a catalyst, it was an excuse and the war would have taken place sooner or later anyway. Lots of arms, bad history, bad tempers, lots of mistrust = war.

Hitler wasn't the "catalyst". The peace treaty of the first world war was the ingredient that prepared the second world war.

[RecruitMonty]

Has anyone actually taken a look at the state of the Chinese economy in the last few months? Its been hit pretty hard by the recent economic turmoil. It's investors, most of whom are Westerners, are starting to tighten their belts with a vengeance.

lets just see where this economic crisis leads us before we start dreaming up fantastical notions of Chinese supremacy.

Their economic growth, though very rapid, is still nowhere near high enough for them to overtake the West. The standard of living in China is still proportionately much lower than it is in Europe and America (isn't likely to improve either as the low maintenance associated with that is one of the key things that made the country so damn attractive to foreign investors in the first place). Salaries are lower across the board and Hong Kong, precisely because it was run by the British, is an exception rather than a rule. China would need many more years of virtually unimpeded growth to even begin to be on a par with the West in any of these aspects. This of course is no longer possible thanks to our little friend financial crisis.

China is almost entirely dependent on exports to other countries (mainly developed ones). As we are not exactly talking about specialist products or even crucial ones it makes things that much more fragile for their economy if things go wrong elsewhere. Why? Simple. The stuff they make anyone can and, if worse does indeed come to worst even the most arrogant Europeans and Americans will be willing to go back to making shirts and electrical appliances if it means rebuilding their own economies and securing better futures for themselves down the line. The fortunes of x million Chinese workers will be the last thing on their minds.

We might even see the end of the so called Global Economy if it turns out that the inter-dependence is what caused the damage to spread so far so fast. After all there are always two sides to every coin. We saw the benefits and now we are going to see the rest.

Bottom line is that China, like any of the Asian economies (save possibly Japan, Singapore and a couple of others) can only prosper when its customers are prospering. Its own population is in no position to what the West does for it at the moment.

China and the rest of these countries came too late to the party.