Paralysis is overpowered.

[Kristoffer O]

Decaying targets decay for a while after battle as well.

[Amhazair]

My problem with paralysis isn't anything about the spell itself (I think it's fine, though I wouldn't object strongly agains a slight duration reduction.) What does bother me is that the AI, once scripting runs out insist on spamming it over and over in preference over soul slay, even with high level astral mages.

While I could possibly understand S3 caster to default to paralyze for fatigue reasons, in my opinion anything S4 or higher should always go for soul slay, to prevent the all too common 50-turn-desperate-but-doomed-attempts-to-kill-the-opposing-SC-followed-by-the-inevitable-turn-limit-rout. This should go double for any mages in a communion, who shouldn't care too much about fatigue. (As opposed to the player setting up the communion, who should defintely worry about setting it up so the masters don't have to worry. )

[Meglobob]

Got to agree with Amhazair here. I just cast about 200 x paralysis at a SC attacking my castle. It had 28 MR, not one effected the SC. I hate the constant casting of any 1 spell after scripting has run. If I had cast a few frozen hearts which my mages were capable of, then that would be 1 dead SC and a lot sooner than 50 rounds. The battle ended very unsatisfactory for everyone concerned with the attacker auto-routing, then my forces auto-routing. The SC had only 3 AP so took a age leaving the battlefield.

My mages also spammed rage, which was obviously useless against a single attacker! I would have prefered, frozen heart, water strike and/or geyser.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Meglobob

Got to agree with Amhazair here. I just cast about 200 x paralysis at a SC attacking my castle. It had 28 MR, not one effected the SC. I hate the constant casting of any 1 spell after scripting has run. If I had cast a few frozen hearts which my mages were capable of, then that would be 1 dead SC and a lot sooner than 50 rounds. The battle ended very unsatisfactory for everyone concerned with the attacker auto-routing, then my forces auto-routing. The SC had only 3 AP so took a age leaving the battlefield.

My mages also spammed rage, which was obviously useless against a single attacker! I would have prefered, frozen heart, water strike and/or geyser.

My tests came to pretty much the same conclusion about the success rate, so why are all these other people getting so unlucky on their resistance rolls and losing their high MR SCs?

[Agema]

It's chance, and the errors in human perception relating to chance.

What happens is that people very keenly remember when their expensive super-SC fails that one time, especially when the fail is catastrophic and results in autodeath, and more so if it happens early in a battle.

People forget that that same SC might have already been subject to many MR rolls over time and passed them all; or they forget they have many SCs over the course of playing Dom3 who have passed hundreds of such rolls between them and it's only that one that has failed catastrophically. They may forget the times that SCs fail a MR check but it was for something trivial like taking damage from an astral geyser, and so lose perspective of how easy it can be to fail an MR roll.

Alternatively, you can view it this way. If you've got a community of hundreds, each of whom is running a few games, each game with a few SCs, if all those SCs have a 1/1000 chance of failing an MR roll, it's actually very likely at least one SC walks into a battle and fails an MR roll with a disasterous result, because you've got over 1000 SCs facing MR rolls.

[Adept]

[quote=K;634346][quote=NTJedi;634337]

Originally Posted by konming

Considering that the pro-SC crowd won't accept more than a few turns of paralysis for a fully buffed and kitted out SC

Burn strawman burn. Nobody has said that. Who is this mysterious lobby anyway?

[Adept]

[quote=K;634697]

Originally Posted by sector24

The telling phrase for me
"The fact that it can be easily countered" is not a conclusion or an assumption. It's a fact.

This is not a fact. MR 15 is high, MR 18 is pretender level. MR 23 is not enough to make commander stay non paralysed if the other side has several astral mages capable of casting paralyse.

There are other things needed on a fighting pretender or other SC than just MR boosting items. Led Shield, as a prime example is not an easy choise for a non-cavalry SC as the fatigue cost is just too high.

What is it with K and this spell anyway? Does he just love to argue, or is it his special precious baby? Reducing the duration doesn't change things that much, but it would make it a better and more balanced spell... much less frustrating too.

[konming]

[quote=Adept;635830]

Originally Posted by K

This is not a fact. MR 15 is high, MR 18 is pretender level. MR 23 is not enough to make commander stay non paralysed if the other side has several astral mages capable of casting paralyse.

There are other things needed on a fighting pretender or other SC than just MR boosting items. Led Shield, as a prime example is not an easy choise for a non-cavalry SC as the fatigue cost is just too high.

What is it with K and this spell anyway? Does he just love to argue, or is it his special precious baby? Reducing the duration doesn't change things that much, but it would make it a better and more balanced spell... much less frustrating too.

This is getting amusing. How many SCs you see have a high base MR of 15? I cannot think of one, maybe you can remind me?

SCs need to get their MR up because, hey, there is a small spell called soul slay in case you forgot. And did I say mind hunt? How about enslavement? Charm? Bone melter? Blindness? You got to be crazy to send SCs out without decent MR gears unless it is first year pretender SC.

[WraithLord]

I know I'm jumping late into this and no, I haven't read the entire thread, just scanned it at random and read the end, so I apologize if I repeat or something.

Regarding paralyze and SCs I've got to agree with Agema. Yes, its nice to role play with SCs, but no, they shouldn't be impregnable. As strong as they are some thing some time, when they are out of luck maybe, should be able to hit and/or kill them.

Originally Posted by Meglobob

Got to agree with Amhazair here. I just cast about 200 x paralysis at a SC attacking my castle. It had 28 MR, not one effected the SC. I hate the constant casting of any 1 spell after scripting has run. If I had cast a few frozen hearts which my mages were capable of, then that would be 1 dead SC and a lot sooner than 50 rounds. The battle ended very unsatisfactory for everyone concerned with the attacker auto-routing, then my forces auto-routing. The SC had only 3 AP so took a age leaving the battlefield.

My mages also spammed rage, which was obviously useless against a single attacker! I would have prefered, frozen heart, water strike and/or geyser.

Yes, I agree with both. From bitter past experience there is little I hate as much as the AI spamming useless spells (and paralyze is a great example) while it could have cast much better spells (like soul slay, frozen heart, dust to dust etc).

This relates to a suggestion on a different current thread (forgot name) to allow scripting categories. Meaning order your mage to concentrate on evocation only (so S2W2 mage will spam frozen heart and not paralyze).
Another option is to change the weights the AI gives to spells. Lower paralyze some, increase soul slay and frozen heart some.
A third, unlikely option is to allow players to actually set the spell weights per game. So players will usually stick with defaults but on occasions make changes as they see fit.

I like the first option most since its simple and it gives a measure of control to the player.

[konming]

[quote=Adept;635830]

Originally Posted by K

This is not a fact. MR 15 is high, MR 18 is pretender level. MR 23 is not enough to make commander stay non paralysed if the other side has several astral mages capable of casting paralyse.

There are other things needed on a fighting pretender or other SC than just MR boosting items. Led Shield, as a prime example is not an easy choise for a non-cavalry SC as the fatigue cost is just too high.

What is it with K and this spell anyway? Does he just love to argue, or is it his special precious baby? Reducing the duration doesn't change things that much, but it would make it a better and more balanced spell... much less frustrating too.

And if the other party has several astral mages, you should not expect your MR 23 SC to stay alive. Several astral mage and a decent army or strong PD is enough of an investment to defeat a (wrongly geared) SC. You should come and see MP more often.