VOTD-Still like it

[MaxWilson]

What about Shroud + The Ark?

-Max

[Xietor]

Heh. I think i will just pay more attention in the future to killing too much chaff with my thugs and try to keep my death count below 200.

[JimMorrison]

Or just use them until they get too many kills, pass their gear to a new summon, and keep the old one around to take the fall when your opponent decides to use VoTD.

[Kuritza]

VotD is 'just as powerful as it should be'?!!
How about 'its an uncounterable counter to your only counter' in many cases? Quite often you just HAVE to use your God to defend against lots of chaff units (of Rlyeh, Ermor etc). And then your God is getting hit by VotD repeatedly, and its just a matter of turns till he rolls 1 on his MR check. And you cant do anything. You cant hide him (unless he's stealthy. Dont get me started about 'move him back into your capitol, good players will have scouts in your lands), you cant protect him with decoy scouts, you cant teleport astral mages to cut silver cords, nothing.
Where's the logic? How is that balanced?

[Sombre]

It isn't like they're going to kill your pretender the first time they cast it. They'll need to spam it, user penetration items etc and may still need more than one cast to get through.

Besides if your pretender already has an obscene number of kills then he's got you through the early game. If you're that worried about it you can also take an undead pretender. I don't buy the argument that you need a pretender throughout the game to kill ermor and rlyeh chaff. You have budget thugs and mages for that - you don't need huge SCs. And if you're fighting a chaff nation you certainly can make decoys from the thugs that you are using to kill said chaff in the midgame. They are also the units with the best chance of surviving VoTD and forcing repeat casts.

[JimMorrison]

Kuritza said:
VotD is 'just as powerful as it should be'?!!
How about 'its an uncounterable counter to your only counter' in many cases? Quite often you just HAVE to use your God to defend against lots of chaff units (of Rlyeh, Ermor etc). And then your God is getting hit by VotD repeatedly, and its just a matter of turns till he rolls 1 on his MR check. And you cant do anything. You cant hide him (unless he's stealthy. Dont get me started about 'move him back into your capitol, good players will have scouts in your lands), you cant protect him with decoy scouts, you cant teleport astral mages to cut silver cords, nothing.
Where's the logic? How is that balanced?

Translation:

I have put a lot of effort into making an unkillable behemoth. He is perfect in every way, and stomps through thousands of pathetic mortals, leaving a trail of blood and gore in his wake. I am terribly offended that when I go to all the trouble to make something unkillable, that there happens to still be one single way to kill it. It is unbalanced for there to be a counter to invincibility.


Sorry Kuritza, I had to. <3

[Kuritza]

My, oh my. Arent we so very smart and ironic.

They will need to *use penetration items*. The unthinkable. What was I thinking about?! To kill a SC with items you need to *use penetration items*, as if a strain of researching a Tau 4 spell was not unbearable enough.
They may not even kill him with a first spell! Damn, horrible news. They may need to *spam* a spell that costs 3 (three!!!) astral pearls!
And, indeed, budget thugs can quite easily take on Ermor/Rlyeh hordes. Everyone knows that LA Rlyeh doesnt have paralyze-spammers, aha. And Ermor... Heck, bane lords are his downfall indeed.

And, heck, Jim, you're a GODDAMN GENIUS and you have read my mind! Yes, I have an absolutely unkillable pretender God that leaves a trail of gore and whatnot, and no its absolutely impossible to paralyze him or send some thugs with high def and eye shields or mind hunt him (heck, you'd have to research more for that, and then I can counter it in some way, no we cant accept that, no way sir), and you couldnt even cast blindness or life drain or petrify on him, no, its NOT RELIABLE ENOUGH! There should be something that is 100% guaranteed to work. Something that finds him everywhere and requires but one failed MR check, before some nasty and imbalanced spells like antimagic or iron will can buff it. And... yes! VotD, the ultimate perfect tool that will kill him via turn limit.
Now I see the truth in your words.

Thank you, Jim, you had to.

[Tifone]

Not only MR imho. When VotD comes in play, actually as far as I know, you can even recruit some of the cheapest indie commanders from the many provinces you got with your SCs and put them with him. Shouldn't this reduce exponentially the chance of your SC or thug being affected? This isn't a permanent solution of course but couldd gain you some time to try to drive your SCs into your safe provinces where he can't be spotted easily, or to attack the enemy casters of VotD...

[thejeff]

Doesn't work on VotD. It targets the commander with the most kills.
Using cheap indy commanders is a standard way to block most of the assassination type spells, but VotD bypasses it.

[Sombre]

Kuritza said:
They will need to *use penetration items*. The unthinkable. What was I thinking about?! To kill a SC with items you need to *use penetration items*, as if a strain of researching a Tau 4 spell was not unbearable enough.
They may not even kill him with a first spell! Damn, horrible news. They may need to *spam* a spell that costs 3 (three!!!) astral pearls!
And, indeed, budget thugs can quite easily take on Ermor/Rlyeh hordes. Everyone knows that LA Rlyeh doesnt have paralyze-spammers, aha. And Ermor... Heck, bane lords are his downfall indeed.

Even if you were making the best point about VoTD ever made when you respond like that no-one wants to listen to you. Besides I remember from your last rant about this that whenever anyone questions what you're saying you switch up the scenario.

It is true that VoTD is particularly nasty in the hands of LA Ermor and LA Rlyeh, but the reason for this is the larger issue of their freespawn and overall power.