Andean Zorro - MA/diff_research/VPs - game started

[Calahan]

My understanding of NAP's was that, like Drager said, NAP's are not 100% binding unless stated in the rules for the particular game you are playing.

Some games also state that NAP's are binding if they are officially declared in the game thread (see the EA DarkParadise game for an example of this), but any secret NAP's made are not subject to the same binding rules as the public ones. I guess it is only fair that if you are not prepared to tell anyone about your secret NAP's, then you can't really expect anyone to listen to your complaints when your secret NAP's get broken. From reading numerous posts on these forums, it seems that most of the time NAP's are honoured, but backstabbing is part of the risk of NAP's (know your enemies well, but know your allies even better) and a part of MP games in general.

I'm sure I read somewhere (although I could well have either imagined it, or merged many separate comments into one) that one of the reasons the devs haven't put any official game diplomacy options into the game is because they don't want any. As Dominions is meant to be a fight to the death (there can be only one etc.) so the only diplomacy that really exists is to make sure that you
(a)give the other nations a good reason NOT to attack you (ie. becoming the most powerful is a good deterrent)
(b)don't give them a reason TO attack you (ie. becoming the most powerful is a sure way of encouraging others to gang-up on you)
(c)don't give them an opportunity TO attack you (ie. don't stretch your forces too thinly by starting lots of wars)
All of the above is obviously a difficult balancing act, with (a) and (b) being a great example of a blatant contradiction!!! But then that's just another part of the this great game in my view :-)

But I am still a newb, so all of the above is just a collection of my thought on NAP's, and what I've read in many various threads on the subject. Apologies to everyone (and a HUGE apology to Kheldron) if I have broken a golden rule of MP-games that I'm unaware of, although as far as I can tell I haven't done. (I don't think breaking NAP's is held on anywhere near the same level as, or generates as much anger as for example, the whole 'Mists of Deception + Retreat' issue)

I don't generally make a habit of breaking NAP's (easy to say that now of course :-)) although I accept the risk of the 'tarnishing brush' being swept vigorously over my reputation as a result of me breaking a NAP. All that is left to say is that my mouse hand was forced into doing it by Marignon's threatened destruction. Either that or my Maenad's 'Sat-Navs' are playing up, and found themselves in Caelum's lands instead of Ashdod's :-)

[Janlm]

I for one is very happy to see at least one deciding to take the right decision and punish the war mongering Caelum, who attacked us with no reason or no warning. I have personally seen the result of their attack on the general population, and believe me when I say its not pretty. The world will be a better place without the evil of Caelum, and we will do ours to make sure it happens!

Marignon

[Kheldron]

My...poor poor Pangeans fighting against the evil almighty ogre of Caelum

What I see is the biggest army in the world and an overpowered deified gorgon taking advantage of a former ally to increase his dominion.

You don't *have* to justify you warmongering with my so-called agressivity you know? You're just a bloody monster and can't help your nature ?
YOU were the one to ask for a NAP when you were wounded by Ashdod and I the one who could have striked at you and chosed peace instead, remember? That was only 2-3 months ago.
I for one uphold my honor and would not have gone to such depth.

Let it be known in the taverns of the world and the underworld, Pangeans are the most treacherous people of all.
Hail to all those of you who make him bleed for that!

In the meantime, we shall proudly fight to the death, which may not be ours.

Nekraal

[BigDisAwesome]

Janlm said:
I for one is very happy to see at least one deciding to take the right decision and punish the war mongering Caelum, who attacked us with no reason or no warning. I have personally seen the result of their attack on the general population, and believe me when I say its not pretty. The world will be a better place without the evil of Caelum, and we will do ours to make sure it happens!

Marignon

You talk as though Pangaea is a saint.
One piece of advice is to be careful against him. Right now I'm learning the hard way that huge amounts of chaff seem to fare better in this high research game than others.

I'm surprised to see Pangaea attacking 2 of his neighbors that were looking for peace now. Who's next on your list? Perhaps you should watch out for him Pythium.

[anticipatient]

I feel inclined to note for other observers of this altercation that we're only hearing from the participants themselves, and they are all biased.

I laud Pangaea for standing against a perceived oppressor, but I condemn them for their treachery. Were it not for their relations with Ashdod, I may consider them heroes. While Caelum is aggressive in the extreme, having consumed one nation and wasting no time in moving on to the next, I would say a better course of action for Pangaea would have been to pursue peace with Ashdod.

If Pangaea were truly interested in protecting Marignon and had thought it through, perhaps a better tactic would've been to maintain border tensions with Caelum, thereby making it more difficult for Caelum to commit to a full scale assault on Marignon.

That said, I am not attempting to vilify anyone. My goal is the same as Caelum's, the same as everyone's. And in Pangaea's situation, I would've fought against Caelum as well.

May I remind everyone that the condition of victory in this conflict is the control of five capitols. Caelum as two. Marignon's becomes a third. Pangaea's would make a fourth. Who else is then neighboring Caelum? Perhaps a better question would be, who is NOT then neighboring Caelum? And who is NOT then threatened?

I am both impressed with Caelum's success and threatened by it. I anticipate a somewhat scathing reply, despite my fairly neutral appraisal of the situation. But anyone knows that dominance in this game brings hostile attention . . . as it should.

[DonCorazon]

What's happening to Eriu - they look like they are on the way out.

[anticipatient]

They were holding off Abbyssia for a while.

[Calahan]

Looks like I'm going to need that delay I talked about for Friday-Sunday. I should be able to do the current turn, but then I'm going to have no chance of getting the following turn done until Monday. I'd be able to manage if the turns were quick, but they're taking me well over an hour now, and there's no way I'll have that sort of time free this weekend due to my best man duties at a family wedding. (I can do turns in both my other 2 games in less than 5 minutes combined, so I'll be able to sneak them in)

Apols to all about disrupting the flow of the game :-( Should be back to normal service from Monday on.

Calahan

[anticipatient]

Delay is set. No problem Calahan, gaming'd be silly if it made life impossible

[Niarg]

I'm going away for a while and then moving house s I'm trying to find a permenant sub, I don't know if I'll be able to take turns until then so feel free to set me to ai.