Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

[Tifone]

Excuse me if I say that, Zeldor. You are clearly a much more expert player than me, for your grade and your deep knowledge of the paths mechanics.

But I don't like the tone of your participation. You are not saying - that is cool and I think I have ideas of how to improve it. You are just pointing out things it seems you think have been done wrong with a rude sarcasm that put me somehow in discomfort.

I'm not attacking you, I don't know you and possibly you are a very kind and moderate person. And I'm not some kind of "politically correctness" tyrant. I just want to say I hope people use more moderate tones towards the work of the devs to create this huge game world with dozens of nations and thousands of spells... mostly because I respect and really like their work, and secondly and in minor part, because it would be easy to make them feel underappreciated and lose their support for the game... and I don't think you will find another game so wide and unique around

Peace ^_^

[Zeldor]

Oh, I was not attacking anyone. Sorry if someone understood it that way. I totally agree with JimMorrison that nations should be different and play differently. But it is strategy game and we'd all like to start with our favourite nations with as equal chances as possible. It is unfair to suggest someone to play other nation because the one he likes just sucks in late game.

The thing I said was that instead of trying to balance many nations we should balance magic system. Because magic is what matters later. And you simply need astral and death [at least a lot of astral] to have any chances. Nature can get everyone with common indies. Giving some nation N10 recruitable mages wouldn't really change much, people wouldn't fear them. And imagine someone getting S10 or D10 mages.

And Tifone, I am in favour of removing Mind Hunt and Magic Duel totally from the game, or at least really nerfing them. That probably goes for horror spam too. There are many overpowered [well, simply too easy and cheap] tactics in that game. Luckily CBM makes it a bit better and gets better with every version.

[Gandalf Parker]

Tifone said:
I'm not attacking you, I don't know you and possibly you are a very kind and moderate person. And I'm not some kind of "politically correctness" tyrant. I just want to say I hope people use more moderate tones towards the work of the devs to create this huge game world with dozens of nations and thousands of spells... mostly because I respect and really like their work, and secondly and in minor part, because it would be easy to make them feel underappreciated and lose their support for the game... and I don't think you will find another game so wide and unique around

Peace ^_^

BINGO, and excellently put.

[Xietor]

It is actually true that the vast scope of this game cannot be realized by the players at all. You get a sense of it when you try to mod. And even with a simple mod like Epic Heroes, which is tiny in scope, it is hard to balance, and a few months after I stop working on it, I cannot recall all of the abilities each Hero has etc.

Unless KO has a photographic memory, then there is no way he can remember all of the spells, units, items effects.

It is amazing that the races are as balanced as they are, even with the limitless diversity.

It is also true that no matter how much work KO devotes to tweaking the races, even if he did it for 12 hours a day until the day he last drew breath, would a game of this scope be "perfect."

Something could always be found that could be tweaked. Which is why 99 percent of games that have no monthly fee to play just fix a glaring bug or 2, and that is that.

The online games that continue to tweak the game, develop new content etc, as you may have noticed, all charge a monthly fee.

Lastly, I do disagree that all magic paths should be equal
in power. And besides s and d, which Zeldor mentioned, Earth and Blood are also very powerful. Ask all of the astral nations that fell to Pangaea in Alpaca!

[Tifone]

Xietor said:
It is also true that no matter how much work KO devotes to tweaking the races, even if he did it for 12 hours a day until the day he last drew breath...

Ahah, "last breath"? Don't you know man? KO can cast Phoenyx Pyre whenever he wants, and always has Life After Death on him so he can return as an Undead Priest to Reanimate Longdeads who will work on the game

And about JK, i don't really need to remind you about Rejuvenate and Youth Boots... Sacrificing virgins pays

[triqui]

LA Bogarus 4 4 4? 2 ? (their troops are actually not bad and mages give good versatility; ...

They troops suck badly and they have no sacreds. The nation is nice, i like their magic versatility and with a good awake SC they are viable. But that does not change the fact that they initial expansion strength sucks, and they are vulnerable to early attacks. I think it has been done on purpose, actually, as a way to counterbalance their powerful research.

[Gandalf Parker]

Wow. Im having a blast with them.
It sounds like yet another case of "they suck" when it might better be said "They suck at playing my style". Im not knocking you. There are two common things I see in posts about things that are broken or out of balance with nations.

A) not understanding that nations do not balance to each other, the game is rock-paper-scissors balance

B) talking about nations without apparently having played to their strengths.

When you played LA Bogarus...
did you make use of their cavalry?
did you make use of Skopets and Khlysts?
did you make use of 5 Fold Angels?
did you make use of the Luck protection?

As an example; there is nothing wrong with LA Bogarus not doing as well as LA Ulm if they are both playd with LA Ulm tactics.

[quantum_mechani]

triqui said:

and they have no sacreds.

This is not the case, though they aren't especially awe-inspiring.

[triqui]

I did not say Bogarus suck. Actually, i did say i like the nation.

But they troops suck. From a basic stat comparison. Their stats are weaker than anyone else (And that includes most indis) Their missile weapon is a *short bow* in *late era*, which they couple with precision 8. And it happens to be the good part of his army, go figure.

The nation is good. Just that its strength is not the troops. And that is exactly what this thread is for: to find out each nation strength and weaknesses.

I know Bogarus should not play as Ulm, becouse Ulm has good starting troops and Bogarus... well, does not. I would rate Bogarus higher than Ulm anyday, though.

EDIT: as already said for Maverni. Fine, if Bogarus troops are "good", then which ones are "bad"? Which nation troops will you rate weaker than Bogarus in Late Age? Becouse if Bogarus is a 4/5, then everybody else is a 5/5 and Uttgarde or Vanheim are 8/5.

[triqui]

This is not the case, though they aren't especially awe-inspiring.

True. "they have no sacreds worth mentioning" is more accurate.