Advice for Bandar Log in Dawn of Dominions map

[Mr_Dark]

First off, I'm a pretty new player to Dom, but *really* enjoying it - great game, great community here.

Here's my question: I'm getting to know the different races in SP. I've mastered the 'Bless' strategy of the Van/Hel. I've got the missile/infantry strategies of Ulm down. I've won a couple times as Ermor, Sauromatia, and Agartha.

Now I'm working on the Bandar. I've read the strategy guide, but I'm still getting slaughtered by C'tis or Hel - does anyone have any tips for playing the apes on this map?

Biggest problem: my missile troops aren't a match for Hel's ethereals or C'tis' chariots - I can't get the kills in before my morale fails and the monkeys run for the trees. I've also tried the Yaksha swordsmen with a bless, but can't make them in enough numbers to tip the scales.

Thanks!

[Endoperez]

I presume you played all of these in Early age, so your monkey nation is Kailasa, not Middle's Bandar Log.

Manual has army rout rules on page 80. Study them and try to see why your troops are running. Is it because 75% of your army has died? In this case, buy less Markata, and more quality troops.
Kailasa can't recruit good priests, so you might have trouble casting Sermon of Courage or Fanaticism. Try to keep your prophet in important battles, and if at all possible, try to fight battles in your own dominion. The +1 bonus of your own dominion makes wonders if compared to -1 of enemy dominion. Also, recruit independent priests to do all the blessing. You should use your capital to recruit researchers, not bless-casters for your armies.

Have you tried magic-heavy strategies yet? Kailasa will get AWESOME Gandharvas from Conjuration. They are sacred and have protection 18, and multiple attacks. Recruit cheap researchers (Gurus or those sacred Astral 1 mages), send one Guru site-searching ASAP, and keep expanding. If you find independent mages that aren't sacred, build a lab and also recruit them. Lizard Shamans, amazon Sorceresses, perhaps the Hoburg mages as well; there are few. Try to get to Conjuration 5 as fast as possible while still being able to expand using conventional armies. If you meet strong enemies, stall until you can summon Gandharvas. Depending on what gems you have, you might also be able to summon Naiads (nature 3) or Naiad Warriors (prot 15, mapmove 2, amphibious), or some Troll Kings after Conjuration 6.

Alternatively, you could go first for battlefield magic. Thaumaturgy from level 2 onwards gives Astral mages ever better spells to cast: Mind Burn, Paralyze, Soul Slay, Enslave Mind - it's fun. Evocation gives Arcane Probing for finding Astral sites easily, but other than that it's more about elemental burnination. Blade Wind is especially good, and Falling Frost at level 5. Summon Earth Power from Conjuration will make Blade Wind even more awesome, and if you research Construction, Earth Boots and Water Bracelets can be used to boost your spells for a very good price.

[Mr_Dark]

You're right that I haven't tried any magic-oriented offenses. Most of the races I've won with have been pretty conventional armies.

The other problem I've observed is that on that map, at least, there is no reasonable PD for Kailasa that has a chance of fending off the low-level probes (20-40 combatants) that the computer likes to send across the border. By the end of the second year you have to have one army just to defend the border and chase raiders. By then, a PD of 25 or so doesn't stop C'tis or Hel, and you don't have the numbers to fight off a real army when it shows up.

Thanks for the direction - I'll give it a go. If there's interest I'll post my results too-

Cheers-

[lch]

High PD is a playstyle sin that's favored in games against the AI. Try to make without it.
If your troops have problems, try an awake or dormant pretender which makes a good thug/SC. E2,A1,S1,W1 are good for self-buffing.

[Shovah32]

Just give up now. Even against the ai, your PD will make you lose.

'nuff said.

[Endoperez]

I still don't understand what's the fuss about monkey PD. On one hand, "don't use PD, ever, except to see what enemy is throwing at you, and level 1 is enough for that", and on the other " Even against the ai, your PD will make you lose." Is it a joke or something?

[vfb]

Yes, it's a joke. There was an extremely long and heated discussion about Monkeys will NEVER WIN BECAUSE OF THE PD (caps not mine). And about 3 or 4 threads were actually started on the topic (at the same time by the same person). There was a slight communications breakdown. All about monkey PD and how monkeys will never win BECAUSE OF THE PD.

So, if you see a reference to Monkey PD now, you can pretty much assume it's a joke. Especially if it's in a poem. Or if there are a few extra '!' or '!!!!!' or even a '!!11!!!!!111!!ELEVEN!'.

[Endoperez]

I knew about the threads, but I didn't bother reading them. I didn't have enough free time then.

[lch]

My reply was no reference to that thread (this time). It is a common misconception from players who purely play SP games to rely on PD to do the fighting for them. This might be due to the problems of enemy armies, which seem to always be one step ahead, plowing a wake of devastation through the player's provinces while getting away from fighting a decisive battle against the players forces that are chasing them. Using PD to "prevent" this leads to a bad playing style. My advice was not to fall for this.

[vfb]

Oh no, I've created even more confusion with my poor explanation!

And here was Mr_Dark just wanting some good advice, which he got from you. So:

* People joke about monkey PD for historical reasons

* It really is not worth buying more than one point of in my serious opinion. But always buy at least one point of PD.