Satellites and multiple targets

[Wardad]

I just started experimenting with Gold and started checking out SATs and targeting.

I designed 7 SATs with DIFFERENT Direct Fire weapon types:
Ionic Engine Damage
Shield depeleters (temporal types)
Computer Virus
Tachyon Cannons (skip shield and armor).
PPBs, heavy temporal guns etc...

I added DIFFERENT firing strategies for my SATs, mixing up primary target order and max damage %:
SAT-Fastest
SAT-Stongest
SAT-Nearest
SAT-Farest
SAT-Unarmed etc...

I designed five DIFFERENT enemy ships to encounter the SATs:
Battle Ship, Master Computer, PPB, Shields, Armor.
Light Cruiser, Crewed, armed and shielded
Light Carrier, Crewed, no cargo, shielded
Light cruiser, Crewed, repair ship, no shields
Light Cruiser, Crewed, Sweeper, no shields

I set up 70 SATs in a worm hole and sent the ships through:
1. The default Optimum strategy: The SATs did hit multiple targets in a turn but mostly concentrated on a single target before moving to the next one.
2. Using a Different strategy for each SAT: Multiple targeting was obvious.

It seems that Engine, Shield, and Computer damage weapons would easily move on to the next target. Engine Damage SATs may want to use the SAT-Fastest strategy, to prevent escapes.

The SAT-Strongest strategy (when used for all SATS) can multilpex the targeting the most. Due to the ships taking on damage and becoming weaker.

The SAT-nearest and SAT-farest were less effective.


IN EVERY TEST THE SHIPS MOVED AND FIRED FIRST.
YOUR SATs MUST BE TOUGH ENOUGH TO SURVIVE THIS VOLLEY.


I'm testing SATs with Seekers next. I heard that they will all fire at the same ship. My SAT strategies may help, unless the ships are identical.

[Arak Koba]

Thanx for the test info- this kind of stuff I find always to be useful!

I am very interested in seeing how SAT multi-plexing with seekers is handled.

And as far as the ships attacking first: I guess this makes sense, since they can move and the SATs can't, so they will always have the initiative to move into range and fire when ready.

[Bman]

I thought they had fixed it so that the "defending player" goes first which means the sats should go first. Even though the ships have engines and such, the sats are sitting at the wormhole carrying out their only mission: shoot anything that appears in that wormhole that is not friendly. In otherwords they are ready and waiting to fire and should get first shot. Otherwise the incoming fleet could either run out of range before the sats shoot, or bLast them all to hell.

[PvK]

Well, Wardad didn't say what the test conditions were. I would expect he was using the simulator, rather than engineering a hotseat game to do this. Therefore, it would not be a warp point defense. The ships would be moving in from outside, and since they are the moving ones, they will tend to fire first, unless the satellites are using range-increasing mounts that give them enough of a range advantage that the ships move themsleves into the sats' range a turn before they can shoot back.

PvK

[Wardad]

Ok, Ok.

I engineered a hot seat game.
The ships came from the other side of the worm hole and appeared in the middle.
I used Tactical-Auto combat and viewed combat replay. One time I did use strategic and replay.

AAARG!!!
Player 1 laid the SATs. Player 2 warped the ships.
Is that the firing order???

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UPGRADES HAPPEN!!!

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[ 28 March 2002: Message edited by: Wardad ]

[Wardad]

I tested SATs with seekers next. Hot seat tactical-auto and strategic.
Strategic is different from tactical-auto. DEFENDERS FIRED FIRST IN STRATEGIC COMBAT.

I am now looking only at Strategic Combat with replay.

All 24 Seeker SATs fired at the same ship. Used 4 SAT designs (identical CSM4) with different target strategies. Opponent had different ships types as before. The Seeker SATs get creamed.

Looked at earlier experiment with Direct Fire weapons. It seems the SAT stack will use only the first SATs firing strategy.

I used more Engine Damage SATs. No way are they switching targets like they should (are the beams the same color of Computer Virus?). I think targets are switched when a different SAT design or Weapon type is fired.

If I could only text read the *.CMB combat replay file it would be easy to evaluate the results. Otherwise it will take a lot more tightly controlled tests. It would also help to know each weapons beam color and appearance.

SAT FIRING ORDER
SAT stack firing order is: first laid - first to fire.
SAT stack firing order shown in Lay SAT Order right window SATs in System.
Order can be changed by recovering all SATs of a design and relaying them.
I suggest for simplicity that a alphabetical order naming be used.

SENSOR BONUS
A "brain SAT" with sensors or talisman gives the bonus to the whole stack.

[Lisif Deoral]

Neural Combat Nets can be mounted on sats, but... do they actually work? (AFAIK units have no experience modifiers...) It's a bit difficult to test since NCNs can't be researched.

By the way: I have problems with AI not using well (or not using at all) multiplex tracking on bases and ships, too. When the Last target is destroyed, at least one weapon is skipped before the AI picks a new target (at least in the simulator); sometimes the base will stop firing after destroying its first target.

[Wardad]

I wonder if a stack of Weapon Platforms behave this badly.

Anyway, The Ionic (engine damage) beam has the same sickly green appearance as the Computer Virus. The other weapons were easy differentiate. Mixing up the direct fire weapon types in a stack seems to be the best way to multiplex the firing.

I futher mixed up a stack by creating two engine damage sats named SAT_A_ED and SAT_A1_ED and seperated the firing order by deploying other SATs inbetween. It helps.

I have been playing a simultaneous game now and there's no manual deployment. All of the SATs in a tranport get deployed. Is it first loaded first laid (Sorority System) or alphabetical order? What about remote load command? Which one gets loaded first.

I've had enough of SATs for now. I only use them early game anyway. Except for recon sensors.

[ 01 April 2002: Message edited by: Wardad ]

[Fyron]

IIRC, it deploys all units in the first loaded, first deployed method. This can be used to your advantage with troops: make 2 types, one filled with shields and only one weapon, and the other type with only one shield and a bunch of weapons. Load the shield troops first, and they will be shot first in invasions, soaking up alot of damage.

[ 01 April 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Wardad]

SATs in a stack are not individually targeting. SATs of the same design (name) are bundled together for targeting.

ex..

1. All 5 SAT1s target 1. 2 SAT1s kill it, so 3 SAT1s don't fire until next round.
2. SAT2s fire on next target 2, depleting shields.
3. SAT3s are shield depleters, so a new target 3 is picked.
4. SAT4s are missles, all SAT4s fire at target 2.
5. SAT5s damage target 2.
6. SAT6s are missles, al fire on target 2.

note: (first laid, first to fire, all SATs use first startegy)

Stack Mulitplexing is helped by changing the (only X) weapon type, the design name, or killing the target.

I don't know if a stack of Weapon Plateforms follow the same rules, but I have my suspicions.