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September 26th, 2007, 11:29 PM
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Sergeant
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 286
Thanks: 8
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
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Clandestine Expansion
I have done a quick search of the forums and this didn't come up, so I thought I would mention this interesting strategy. This build is designed for Pythium, but any nation with (preferable non-capitol-only) assassins can do it.
I went for a 9S, 5 Dom, decent scales awake fountain (helps with research, dominion and general spell casting to be awake).
Build:
3x Assassins
alternate Mage/Assassin/Mage/... until you have a border with an opponent, then build Mages, with Assassins as needed.
Send your stack of assassins in to a province, assassinate their leaders, and take it! The average province has 3-4 leaders, so 3 assassins can take it in ~2-3 turns! Stay away from Barbarians and Knights (they can be killed, it is just harder) and Druids (they have blood slaves AND body guards). Some indies, like Lion Tribe, can throw spears. They only have one, but that is enough to route or severely injure your assassin.
If you find time to kit some out, here are some builds that seem to work:
Cons 0:
Just give them a shield (there is only one) and a sword (I prefer enchanted sword, but any seems to work).
Cons 2:
Give them pend. of luck (2x the survivability), shield and sword if wanted (the light tower shield seems like a good option). These assassins can take barbarian and knights (but maybe not druids).
Cons 4:
Here is where my lack of experience shows. Obviously, Amulet of Anti-Magic is a must (the enemy will definitely have spells that need it by now). Flying boots can be given if needed (for strategic reasons, mostly).
Light scale mail is also good, though they shouldn't have to rely on prot. I like shroud of the battle saint (+3 MR and twist fate with the 9S fountain). Ethereal cloak or some kind of missile protection would probably be better against the druid guards.
I can't decide between the following:
one-handed weapon (frost brand, sword of swiftness, or lightning spear?)
either lucky coin and trident (or resist ring if fighting a water/air nation) OR light tower shield and luck pendant.
This seems like a viable strategy, though I haven't had much MP testing. It is primarily meant for cheap expansion, though kitting the assassins can help extend their usefulness. I have also wondered if a couple well kitted assassins could take light PD. They aren't useful against armies unless you are fighting the AI, because human players tend to patrol (and 50+ troops will get most all your assassins). This is especially bad b/c the other player will pick up your gear.
This would work in much the same way as Marignon. I have yet to test it as C'tis, Abysia, or Jomon (three other nations I know have assassins). C'tis assassins are a bit different, but Abysian and Jomon assassins look better than Pythium's.
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September 26th, 2007, 11:36 PM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 674
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
This strategy is called thugging. Its often done with low-level summons(black servant), or tougher commanders such as a bakemeno general. One black servant with a tower shield or lucky coin and maybe a ring of the warrior can take out a serious amount of pd.
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September 27th, 2007, 12:37 AM
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Sergeant
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 379
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
Interesting. I'm still new, but this seems different from thugging because he's assassinating, not going up against the armies.
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September 27th, 2007, 12:50 AM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 674
Thanks: 7
Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
Oh, assasinating leaders?
Yes, it can be done, but tends to be too slow for the payoff. Sending an army, especially with pythium troops, is simply faster/more effective.
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September 27th, 2007, 11:02 AM
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Second Lieutenant
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 477
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
I've messed about with this in SP, and I can't see that it could ever be a competitive strategy.
Firstly, assassins are slow, slow, slow. Move, assassinate, move, assassinate instead of just moving forward with a conventional army. You can use tricks like retreat-scouting to make it more efficient, but it's still slow, and the enemy can 'steal' provinces you've cleared of commanders.
Secondly, assassins cannot reliably kill commanders unless they have some serious items. Regular indy commanders can put up a tough fight, whilst mounted commanders are even more dangerous.
There are tricks to help make your assassins more effective. The easiest way is an assassin prophet with a strong bless; he'll be a reliable killing machine. Shrouds of the battle saint work as well.
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September 27th, 2007, 11:12 AM
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General
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,327
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Thanked 133 Times in 117 Posts
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
If you've got assassins that can handle regular commanders, either as is, or with minimal gear (skull earring?) it can be useful.
Not as your only expansion, but to mop up provinces while your expansion army is moving off in another direction.
The main cost is not building mages for early research.
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September 27th, 2007, 12:26 PM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,355
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Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
Skull Earring is quite effective for most level five indies.
Even a Mujina can take out an indie Knight commander long before you can afford the resource loss of your infantry- just see if you can place them back a little. And if you take out all the leaders, then all those knights will flee.
Otoh, a priest kills you and picks up the Skull Talisman? No more assassination.
Not optimal expansion, but it can be a cost-effective way to weaken a key province. Until you've got a spare castle up, though, or are surrounded by unusually difficult independents (e.g. barbarians and an archer free nation), it's often an ineffective use of your commander recruit time.
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September 27th, 2007, 07:44 PM
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Second Lieutenant
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: country of stinky fromages
Posts: 564
Thanks: 29
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
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Re: Clandestine Expansion
EA abysia has remarkable assassins, with flight and good stats, easily thuggable . I recommend them to people who love covert ops.(avoid like hell those MF priests)
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