Well...talk about an intimidating game!

[Huzurdaddi]

Although I am no fan of arguments based upon appeal to authority, I may make an exception for QM. He simply knows the game *that* well from a balance perspective. But then it's not necessary to simply trust his assertions since he always backs them up.

Oh, and he used to crush me with very unpleasant regularity back when I hung out on IRC.

[Folket]

I find that titans with air can be very devastating in mid game. Once you have wrathful skies you may drop it on an army having the right resistances and that army is history. You can do this long before your opponent have anything to counter your 200-300 hp god.

[llamabeast]

In Alpaca Digress had a Frost Father which turned out to be the most powerful SC I've ever seen (which took me by surprise since I was never very scared of titans). Unfortunately I can't remember the details, although I do remember it had a cold aura of 40(!).

[Folket]

Frost Father? He only got 10 hp. in dominion 10 that becomes 30, but still he should easily be taken out by lots of things.

Perhaps you meant a Father of Winter.

[Digress]

Yes the poor fella was the Father of Winter ... was countered in the end (oh for a couple of mammoths ).

The biggest problem being big is being big - your opponent can always script "attack large monsters" and your poor pretender gets a right shellacking.

[Edi]

Cold aura caps out at 24, I think. Stack a Niefel Jarl with enough cold-enhancing items and other stuff (Rime Hauberk, Breath of Winter, cold scale 3) and he stops getting any increases at 24. He'll actually ignore the scripted Breath of Winter because it won't add anything.

[Baalz]

Edi said:
He'll actually ignore the scripted Breath of Winter because it won't add anything.

Ahhh, one more mystery solved. "why is BoW ignored *sometimes*?"

[Jazzepi]

I'm playing the EA giants race, whose name I will not even attempt to spell correctly, and I have a giant with a chill of 25 there after casting breath of winter.

I would suspect that there is not a cap. Instead I think that what Edi was trying to do was akin to wearing an item that enchants the wearer with Breath of Winter, and then trying to cast it on the same unit, which is why they ignored it. I want to say that the Father of Winter that Lazy Perfectionist had attained higher than 25 cold aura, but I can't be sure.

Jazzepi

[SelfishGene]

I don't know, a 9/4 titan has use in multiplayer, of any calibre. I think people underestimate the power of being able to quickly cast powerful globals naturally, without booster items.

Sure, eventually, everyone has +3 or so boosters, and empowerment, ect. But can you throw up a powerful global at turn 30?

SCs are extemely powerful but not invincible. I easily killed in a multi game, in two rounds, a classic flying Wraith Lord with Soul Vortex, simply by shooting him with a bunch of Tien Chi's Demons of Heavenly Fire, and during a seige and not it just attacking on it's own. OTOH, i was smashed terribly by a Fire King's flame spell attacks later on, and not by a melee SC.

The real key is early expansion for the early SCs, but take the right 9-bless, and right scales, and you can do it with national troops just as easily.

I like themed pretenders because i can cast powerful spells like Gift of Nature's bounty, spells like that which are nearly impossible to cast without a Pretender unless you spend hundreds of gems empowering and with + items. A 9-Death Pretender becomes a massive Ghost factory, for example. To me taking a themed Pretender is a "force multiplier", that lets me push my natural gem path quickly to it's apogee. And compared to Dom2, even "off paths" like nature are much more viable overall with the changes to aging, supplies, ect.

It's alot like the early level summons; sure, if you wait 15-20 turns the gems you spend on stuff like Ice Drakes seem like they've been totally wasted. BUT, if those Ice Drakes help you capture an enemy capital or defend against a massive rush army, they're worth their weight on gold. And, if you can summon ten of them in one turn, instead of pushing them out one at a time, they make excellent choices to create in desperate situations, if easily summonable by national troops.