President Bush commuted 'Scooter' Libby's sentence - Page 4

Gandalf Parker · #31 July 6th, 2007, 11:29 AM

Ive followed the debates between Atrocities and Edi, and altho personally I would like to side with my old friend Atrocities Im afraid that the debate sways me more toward Edi's side.

By the way, some other points Im not sure if I saw....
George W Bush is the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
His list of blatantly stupid comments is long enough to fill, and has filled, a number of books.
He shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history after following a president one of the largest deficit reductions.
He has broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
He is the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
He withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
He refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby has refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
He is the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked*, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. (the provoke thing is at beast highly questionable)
He is the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
And he has trashed the National Guard's usefulness by his blatant sidestepping of congress using an emergency clause to start a war.

Azselendor · #32 July 6th, 2007, 02:07 PM

Actually, doesn't the war powers act give him the ability to go to war for no reason for 90 days?

Atrocities · #33 July 6th, 2007, 06:42 PM

If the Europeans feel that the US is the largest threat to world peace then I wonder what they think of Puttman (sp) The ex-kgb hard core communist, opponent assassinating President of Russia?

Azselendor · #34 July 6th, 2007, 10:38 PM

They most likely look at the fact Russian military might is equal to that of Grenada.

Baron Munchausen · #35 July 6th, 2007, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
Ive followed the debates between Atrocities and Edi, and altho personally I would like to side with my old friend Atrocities Im afraid that the debate sways me more toward Edi's side.

By the way, some other points Im not sure if I saw....
George W Bush is the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
His list of blatantly stupid comments is long enough to fill, and has filled, a number of books.
He shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history after following a president one of the largest deficit reductions.
He has broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.
He is the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
He withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
He refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby has refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
He is the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked*, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. (the provoke thing is at beast highly questionable)
He is the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
And he has trashed the National Guard's usefulness by his blatant sidestepping of congress using an emergency clause to start a war.

And nearly half of the US population currently favors his impeachment. More than half favor impeachment of VP Cheney.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070706...uspoliticsbush

Atrocities · #36 July 7th, 2007, 01:39 AM

I don't know, if it weren't for that Haliburton issue, and the screw up with Iraq, Cheney might not be all that bad. You all do know of course that if Bush is impeached Cheney would become President.

Lazy_Perfectionist · #37 July 7th, 2007, 10:09 AM

Even putting aside the issue of Iraq, and policies I oppose, such as the ban on gay marriage, I feel this pair is bad for democracy, our Republic. I'm not saying that relative to any other leaders, simply on their own merits.

If you'd like, I'd explain in some depth a few hours from now, or this evening. But at the moment, I'm off to work.

Atrocities · #38 July 7th, 2007, 06:14 PM

Regarding Gay Marriage, nearly every state that has had a gay marriage initiative on their ballets has failed.

Everyone agrees that gay couples deserve the same rights as non gay couples and no one would prevent them from obtaining those same rights with the exception of the word "marriage." For some reason at this point in time most people feel that the word "marriage" does not mean man with man, women with women, but man and a women. Eventually this will change and people will go to adopt it as a normal part of life, just as they have with many other controversial issues in the past. Give it time and time will settle this issue.

I have four or five key issues that keep me firmly in the middle zone between the two parties. I value a lot of what both parties stand for but feel that overall "freedom" is the key issue. When a few want to take the rights of the many away I tend to get a bit frustrated and that is what moved me out of the democratic party. With republicans the focus is on big business and they don't care that the little guy gets trampled upon while the big wigs profit and avoid jail. This aspect of the Republican philosophy makes me ill to my core. Both parties have very good merits while on the flip side they both have a huge negative side.

Given a choice between the two parties I have to vote the issue that is most important to me and that determines more than anything, whom I will vote for. I have often voted for both democrats and republicans and generally feel that they work best when they share power.

Azselendor · #39 July 7th, 2007, 10:31 PM

Personally, I always liked the idea the president and vice president should be elected separately to force a bi-partisan government

anyhoo. I think the idea is that if they get rid of dick cheney first or bush and cheney first, then the speaker of the house becomes president.

Atrocities · #40 July 8th, 2007, 02:39 AM

I wonder if we really want 8 more years of Clinton? I mean think about it, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton....? I think its time we look to a new leadership source. Either Obama or Thompson. While I really do like Obama, say for his stance on a few key issues, I think he would be a great VP and even President one day. But I like Fred more than I do any of the other pack runners.