Dud nations

[DrPraetorious]

Obviously it requires a certain amount of thought, but here's a first draft. I'm going to wait until the next patch before I do any more actual coding and testing. Let me know what you think.

Construction 3, Sparks. The master smith shatters an earth gem in his mailed fist, sending the fragments hurtling into the enemy.
EF, 100 fatigue. 15 effects + 5 per level of earth magic. 15 points of fire damage (not armor piercing), precision -3. Very long range.

Construction 5, Purified Lance. A lance of purified steel is sent hurtling towards the enemy at tremendous speed, striking unerringly, inflicting massive damage, especially to demons and undead.
EE, 100 fatigue. Pre 100. 50 points of physical holy damage.

Construction 7, Shrapmetal. A rain of shattered metal fragments falls on the entire battlefield.
EEE, 200 fatigue. AoE entire battlefield. 15 points of physical damage.

Thaumaturgy 3, Word of Steel. The magic-draining properties of iron are deadly to beings of the spheres. Words endowed with their power are a weapon against which these unnatural beings have no defense.
EE, 50 fatigue. Does 25 points of untyped damage to a single magical being. 100 Pre. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Thaumaturgy 4, Bane Metal. Hammers and manacles are used in a sympathetic rite to symbolize the dominance of iron over false Gods and their idols, which are shattered and bound. Holy warriors who see their icons treated such, if theylack the will to resist the magic, will find themselves bound and their bones shattered.
EEEE, 200 fatigue. Strikes all hostile sacred units. Magic resistance negates easily. Cripples and also inflicts false fetters. If I can add side effects in the new patch, this will be two effects so targets can suffer one or both conditions.
Thaumaturgy 6, Iron Rage. (Buff, all friendly units, MR+).
Thaumaturgy 7, Purity of Iron. (Buff, all friendly units, MR+)

I have to decide what the buffs do. Problem - Berserk and Haste are two different effect #s, so I can't combine them unless I can give spells side effects.

[Dedas]

Cool spells, but shouldn't sparks cost an earth gem?

[Meglobob]

Sombre said:Meglobob: You don't have to use the mod in SP when you're playing that nation, but it will help the AI out if you're playing against them and /they/ have that nation. I basically only play SP but I'm still very interested in balance.

Good point! Yea, those mods would be really useful, thanks for pointing this out, will use them in that context, to make the AI stronger in SP play.

[Baalz]

Well, I'm not going to comment on Ulm as I haven't really played them in EA or MA, but I am surprised that more people haven't mentioned MA Mictlan. They loose all the best things about being Mictlan (blood, cheap researchers) and gain absolutely nothing. Basically the ONLY thing MA Mictlan has going for it is recruit everywhere Jaguar warriors and good luck with that once your opponents get one of the many great jaguar warrior counters (ever seen blade wind cast on them?) I can't figure out any way to play them competitively.

Now, EA R'yleh I have to strongly disagree is a dud, but you do have to play them quite differently. They have very strong defensive capabilities (in the water) but their real offensive power is the sneak attack. Nobody on land wants to bring the war into R'yleh's waters, and because the water provinces are usually so much bigger they consequently have a very long border that they don't need to worry too much about defending and very good mobility. Aboleths have strong astral and water plus good hp and life draining, that's all you need for a thug capable of teleporting and taking out most PD singlehandedly with no equipment other than possibly an amulet of the fish (body ethereal, personal luck, quicken self, astral shield, breath of winter, attack closest). The trick to EA R'yleh is knowing full well you can't carry on a head to head fight on the land with an evenly matched opponent...so don't. Use your natural water defenses and long border to watch for opportunities to sneak attack, and in MP leverage this to cultivate allies to help you carry the fight on land (ie need help with that war you're in against Pangea?). Don't attack until you can cause enough damage in your initial attack (swarming over your long border and teleporting in aboleths everywhere just when your target committed most of his troops elsewhere) that it cripples your enemies ability to counterattack. This can be amplified by a withering barrage of mind hunts- also best served as a surprise. You've got to think of EA R'yleh like a submarine- surface and fire at a battleship head on and you're gonna lose every time, but if you play to your strengths your opponents won't know you're there until it's too late.

[Xietor]

I love endperez thoughts, if you can make Wardens(warlords) recruitable everywhere mod, that sounds like a mod that i would play ulm with.

With all due respect, more spells is not something Ulm should need. There ought to be 1 race, where its strength is its army, and that race should be Ulm. They hate magic, they rely on steel, so i say boost their units so they in fact, and not in theory, rely on cold steel.

But the spell idea in the construction line are nice. It is thematic that forge masters would research construction.

Giving them a warden at every castle would help, as they at least would have a decent thug with decent mr. I think there mr needs to be 11, and there morale raised to 12. Remove that ridiculous national spell, and boost their morale.

The Black Knights would be formidable with a decent mr.

I am going to try endoperez' ulm mod! Thanks.

[calmon]

Baalz said:
Well, I'm not going to comment on Ulm as I haven't really played them in EA or MA, but I am surprised that more people haven't mentioned MA Mictlan. They loose all the best things about being Mictlan (blood, cheap researchers) and gain absolutely nothing.

At least they still have the cheap priest researchers. In MA with a 100% random magic (FWSN).

[Baalz]

Oh also MA Argatha has some pretty good stuff going for it. Ubrals have some pretty wicked combos (gift of reason, iron warriors), the sacred statues are insanely tough for early game and can easily carry you through midgame with a good blessing. Plus the powerful earth mages pack a good punch mid game (earth quake, blade wind, or destruction depending on what you're facing). Skull mentors ARE easy because what they do have is dark knowledge, and it only costs 30 death (4 skull mentors) to empower somebody to 2D if you haven't got a random pick. Good research (skull mentors plus lightless lanterns) and several solid non-unique SC chasises can be a strong late game if you play it right. Also, because of their solid summons early, mid, and late game they can go with fairly crappy scales and depend on the summons for the core of their army.

[Endoperez]

Dedas said:And don't forget that pikes ignore shields also so it is actually not so hard to hit knights for example.

And just a while ago I wondered why people didn't know Morningstar had the Flail bonus...

Praetorius:

Sparks is nice, although earth gem to fire damage is a bit odd.

Purified Lance/Shrapmetal are strange because they're very powerful evocation spells put into Construction. Word of Steel seems fine as long as it isn't armor-negating. Bane Metal is just strange. I agree with Xietor in that giving Ulm powerful spells doesn't feel like a proper answer, although I could make an exception with a Word of Steel-type spell.

Earth Power/Boots of Antaeus are a good example of Earth giving reinvigoration. Haste would be another good ability. Bigger versions of Legions of Steel/Strength of Giants would be nice.

Xietor:
Warlords are like Lord Guardians, not like Lord Wardens. 15 hp, 13 att/str, 11 def, morale 16, mag res 9. Protection 22/22 and Standard 10, which Black Lords and Lord Guardians also have in the mod. Basically, they're Black Lords who can be given boots (for flying, reinvigoration or resistance purposes), or when you can't afford the gold or the resources (70 g and about 36 r against 110 g and about 70 r).

[Dedas]

Well,
"Construction 3, Sparks. The master smith shatters an earth gem in his mailed fist, sending the fragments hurtling into..."

So I thought it should cost an earth gem.


I am right about the pike aren't I? I think I got it from you somewhere.

Here it is:
"Pikes have base damage of 5, so they aren't that good at piercing heavy armor. Most cavalry units have rather high morale, so repel doesn't keep them from attacking, but as long as the pikeman can hit the knight he deals 1 point of repel damage. IIRC, shield parry doesn't affect repel, so it's usually attack 10+1(pike) against defense of 9 to 11 defense (heavy cavalry) or 11-13 (light/medium cavalry). Pikes can also parry lances and light lances."

Ok, I was kind of right, parry doesn't affect repel.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...786&Forum=f187

[DrPraetorious]

Sparks does cost an earth gem. That's why the fatigue is set to 100.

Earth Magic can go in construction if it wants - why is Legions of Steel in construction instead of alteration or enchantment? Weapons of sharpness, likewise? So, both Purified Lance and Shrapmetal work on constructed materials, so they can go in Construction if they want.

As for Ulm not wanting spells - well, that's fine, but I don't think it'll fix the problem. With a minor improvement in Ulm's military, especially a toughness related improvement, you still do most of your killing with Magma Eruptions.

It's a magic-heavy game. If you want Ulm to make more use of her troops, give her national-troop buffing spells.