Russian RPG-29

[KraMax]

I welcome all.

Many of you probably remember - as in the end of summer of 2006 many headings of newspapers (I think also the USA, Israel and other countries too) - dazzled with headings, that in Lebanon - insurgents successfully use Russian RPG-29 "Vampir" against Israeli Merkava (Merkava 4 including).

English links:
characteristic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-29

English links:
http://www.angkasa-online.com/public/news/0608/276.htm
http://www.defense-update.com/analys...anon_war_4.htm
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/RPG_...banon_999.html
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-159390665.html
and
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=3026

If it is interesting - I can specify and links the Russian sources of information.

I suggest developers - to change characteristics in game - RPG-29 Vampir and Merkava series tanks (and Merkava 4). In game it turns out that RPG-29 cannot destroy tank Merkava.

Yours faithfully

[DRG]

Maxim, play the game more and do some tests BEFORE running to this forum with your latest "discovery" about whatever perceived shortcoming of the game you think you found. Do any of these reports specifically say a Merkava 4 was destroyed by a RPG-29 directly from the front ? No they do not.

Some may be "dazzled" by the headlines but I'm not. Note in the one link you provide they say.......

" firing at outflanking Merkava tanks by targeting the more vulnerable rear zone with RPGs.

Another link you provide ( globalresearch ) says.....

"He does not need to attack a Merkava from the front, where it does indeed have excellent protection. He can hit it from the side, the rear, or the space between the running gear � any tank has many vulnerable spots."

Now... take that information and set up tests with the sceanrio editor and you will find that the RPG 29, as modeled in the game, can INDEED destroy the Mk4 Merkavas as modeled in the game IF they are attacked from the sides and the rear which is HOW THEY WERE DESTROYED IN LEBANON

OK?

Don

[KraMax]

ok

[JaM]

Fun part is that there wasnt even one Mk4 destroyed by RPG, even RPG-29, all penetrating hits with RPG-29 were against Mk2 and Mk3. There were reports that Mk4 was able to withstand repetitive Kornet hits on side turret armor (2 hits to almost same spot...) Frontally no Kornet penetrated, few Mk3 Dor Dalet were damaged from side. For Hesballah every Merkava was Mk4 and everything on tracks was a tank...

[JaM]

and about press credibility : they posted this: "All their artillery -- the AMRAAM, AIM-120B, AIM-95, and even the MLRS 227 multiple-launch rocket systems -- were also made in the United States...." I didnt know AMRAAM is artilery... i always thought that it is Air to Air missile, those bad israelis used AMRAAMs against Hesballah? Hesballah has any fighter planes?

[JaM]

Found another pearl... Israel had 23 Merkava tanks that were hit by enemy fire, but Russian friends are telling us, that Israel lost entire division in Lebanon fight... 23 tanks are a division? its even not a battalion...

[DRG]

JaM said:
Fun part is that there wasnt even one Mk4 destroyed by RPG, even RPG-29, all penetrating hits with RPG-29 were against Mk2 and Mk3. There were reports that Mk4 was able to withstand repetitive Kornet hits on side turret armor (2 hits to almost same spot...) Frontally no Kornet penetrated, few Mk3 Dor Dalet were damaged from side. For Hesballah every Merkava was Mk4 and everything on tracks was a tank...

Yep.... same old....same old. In WW2 every German tank was a Tiger and every shell that landed nearby was an "88". Hesballah was fighting a propaganda war and doing it well. There is no shortage of "journalists" willing to condemn Israel for any perceived transgression or ignore that Hesballah were using civilians as shields whenever possible and there were no shortage of people willing to believe anything that was shovelled their way as long as it made the Israelis look bad


I would be interested in your source about the Kornet hits on side turret armor.

Don

[JaM]

Don: Mostly TankNet, there was a discussion about it with some photos of Mk4 with dented side armor, some Israeli guys on forum like Tzefa and Dadi wrote about that incident.(they provided link for some israeli newspaper webpage + photos) I saw some photos with dented frontal armor of one Mk4, but tank was still able to fight. Mk4 is using NERA type of armor (non explosive reactive armor)so even if it recieve a hit to the same spot it is able to protect that spot (armor looks quite damaged...)

I will try to find those links,but i'm not sure if it will be in tanknet archive, they deleted a lots of materials that was posted during summer war to not help hesballah with additional info

[JaM]

i didnt found those links i montioned,but at least something: http://www.combat-diaries.co.uk/diar...non%202006.htm

[JaM]

another one :http://tank-net.org/forums/lofiversi...17143-950.html

most interesting is DADI's response (for more info look in the link) :

"You take that if 1 crew member killed, then the other 3 survived. What if there were another 6 crew members? What if a tank suffered multiple hits? What about hits that did not penetrate, but the TC was standing on the hull?

The true figures are that on all types of Merks (BTW - This list has at least one mistake) - less than one KIA for every ATGM PENETRATION. If you exclude older models, and focus on the Merk 4 (which was attacked exclusively by heavy and mostly with tandem, ATGMs), than for every PENETRATION you have 0.6 KIA.
Only half the ATGM PENETRATIONS resulted with fatal injuries. There is one Battalion Co who took 2 Kornets (front hull, side turret - non penetrated) and while standing top out, suffered injuries. He already took his job back..."