Soviet OBB T-62 designations

[Smersh]

In the Russian OBB units number 18, 19 and 20 use a un-common designation scheme.

Unit 18 is called the 'T-62M', the more common name is the T-62A, unit 19, is called 'T-62 M1975' the more common name is T-62M. Unit 20 is called 'T-62 M1984'. which is just another variant of the T-62M with newer model ammunition

this isn't a major issue, but it just simplifies T-62 designations and makes them agree with a majority of sources.

[DRG]

You mean there really are a "majority of sources" that agree on the Soviet T-whatever tank series numbering ?

Do tell where. Sorting out Russian model numbers is about as much fun as sorting out what a "panzergrenadier" company should look like.

And yes, there are non standard designations in the game and they are there to make things easier for people so is we put two "T-62M" in the game you know someones going to complain one costs more than the other and they cannot figure out why becasue they have the same name so way back when the OOB designers decided to add things like 'T-62 M1984' so it's a bit more clear this is a different model

I'll tell you want. You get everyone to agree on what all the T54 and T55 and T62 and T64 and T72 and T80 and T90 designantions are supposed to be so they "agree with a majority of sources" and apply them to the units we have in the game and when everyone is happy I will be glad to change them to whatvever they "should" be. In the meantime I will cut and paste this into my to-do list and look at it later. I'm sure there will be more posts on this matter

Don

[Smersh]

I can understand how having 2 T-62Ms can be confusing but this is done with the T-55s. Ex. In the East German OBB there are 3 different T-55As.

But the current T-62M (unit 18) if it were called a T-62A, the more common designation. Will make it more clear, so people don't confuse it with the true T-62M which adds a laser rangefinder. Instead of the T-62A which adds a 12.7-mm DShK antiaircraft maching gun.

The other point is that currently the T-62 uses a completely different designation scheme then then the T-54/55/64/72.

Anyone with more information on T-62 variants?

[Marek_Tucan]

Soviet tank designations are a terrible mess, esp. when locals come into play as well
Just to illustrate this, Czechoslovakian T-72's:
T-72 Obiekt 172M-E (first batch delivered from Soviet union) - really called T-72. So far so good.
T-72M Obiekt 172M-E2 (T-72's manufactured here, already have T-72A/M front hull, laser RF, but lack skirts and smoke greandes - mostly) - really called T-72 by our army
T-72M Obiekt 172M-E4 (later batch with 44rds ammo storage, all have skirts and smoke grenades) - called T-72M in our army
T-72M1 Obiekt 172M-E5(classic T-72M1, nothing to see here, move along) - called T-72M1 AS WELL AS T-72M by our army
T-72M4 (T-72M1 upgrade) - called T-72M4, no problem here, except army of course (see above) often stating it is modernisation of T-72M

Guess with T-62's and all other T's it's similar

[Smersh]

It is all a mess.

[DRG]

Smersh said:
It is all a mess.

Exactly. I'm generally happy with "close enough" becasue there will always be someone with different information. If it was easy, it wouldn't have been a point for discussion for as long as we've been working on the game. I put your info about the T-62 on the list

Don

[MarkSheppard]

Okay, lets see, the following is from Stephen J Zaloga's T-64 and T-80 books with Concord:

T-64R - This is the pre-series production type with the D-68 115mm gun, Ammunition was 40 rounds, of which 30 were in the Korzina autoloader, Total production was about 600 tanks.

T-64 - This was the initial production version with the 125mm D-81T gun. This version had the ZIP tool stowage bin on the right front side and no rear turret stowage bin. Most of these were later modernized as T-64A (rebuild).

T-64A - The T-64A was the first major production series of the T-64 family, It incorporated a number of changes from the initial T-64R and T-64. The ZIP tool stowage box on the right front fender was replaced by an additional fuel cell. A substitute ZIP tool stowage box was added behind the turret, The T-64 had a variety of other internal improvements added. Total production was over 1400.

T-64A (rebuilt) - The T-64A(rebuilt) is a rebuilt T-64 or T-64A, incorporating the new improvements found on later T-64 models. This includes substitution of a rubber side skirt for the gill armor, addition of glacis plate hull armor applique, stowage improvements and other small changes.

T-64B - The T-64B was a redesign of the T-64 to incorporate a new generation of hull and turret armor which was not as bulky as the 1st generation Combination K armor on the T-64A, while offering the same or better protection. The T-64B also introduced the new 9M112 Kobra radio-command guided anti-tank missile (AT-8 Songster), This missile requires a radio-command antenna box, which is fitted immediately forward of the commander's right turret station, A new gunner's sight was fitted which included a laser rangefinder, making the right hand portion of the coincidence rangefinder unnecessary. The T-64B carries 36 rounds of conventional ammunition and 6 Kobra missiles, compared to 37 rounds of 125mm ammunition on the T-64A. This version was called SMT M1980/2 by NATO. When fitted with smoke mortars, it was dubbed SMT M1981/1.

T-64B1 - The T-64B1 is an upgrade to the T-64B, although details of specific improvements are lacking. It may distinguish between new-build T-64Bs, and tanks rebuilt to T-64B standard on the basis of older T-64As during periodic rebuilding, The T-64B1 is on uncommon type with only about 400 built compared to over 1200 T-64B,

T-64BV/T-64B1V - The -V designator identifies tanks retrofitted with explosive reactive armor (ERA), This type of armor was developed under the direction of V.N.Bryzgov at the Nil Research Institute of the Main Armor Directorate at Kubinka in the Moscow suburbs.

T-64 Command Tanks - There are three command tank versions of the T-64 series. These types ore identified by a "K" suffix after the usual designation. The command types have an additional command radio compared to the usual radio fit, and usually have a land navigation device, less ammunition and an additional external radio antenna storage tube. The three main command types of the T-64 family are the T-64AK, T-64B1K and T-64BV1K, The T-64AK was not fitted with the usual 12.7mm NSVT machine gun over the commander's stotion, Additional types on other variants may also hove existed in the past, but hove been consolidated into these types by 1990.

-------------------

T-80 - This is the basic production version of the tank, It is sometimes nicknamed the "Kobra", due to its use of the 9M112 Kobra radio-command guided missile, This is a relatively uncommon type, and only a few hundred were built.

T-80B - Sometimes nicknamed Beryoza (birch Tree), this is the first major redesign of the T-80 family with a modified turret. The turret incorporates a new generation of Composite K ceramic armor which offers better protection against APFSDS kinetic energy penetrators. The turret has an equivalent protective level of 500mm steel compare to 410mm in the earlier models and the T-64. This is the most common variant of the T-80, with over 3,500 in service with Soviet tank units west of the Urals as of 1990. The T-80BK is the command tank variant.

T-80BV - The T-80BV is the T-80B fitted with 1st generation explosive reactive armor. The T-80BVK is the command tank version, There is also a late production type with a new turret similar to the SMT Ml989, but fitted with the turbine engine and 1 st generation ERA. This is probably the T-80U.

T-80D - Soviet documents refer to a T-80D. Nothing definite is known of this variant though it may refer either to an initial diesel powered version of the T-80, or a T-80 equivalent of the T-55AD Drozh anti-missile air defense vehicle.

T-80U/T-80UD - This is the latest version of the T-80 family, sometimes called the SMT M1989. This version has two significant changes from the earlier T-80 family, including a new turret with on improved frontal armor package with 2nd generation reactive armor. This variant is equipped with the 9K120 Svir laser guided antitank missile in place of the older Kobra. The standard version is fitted with the 6TD diesel engine, a 6-cylinder derivative of the 5TDF engine found in the T-64 family, There have been reports that a version of this tank exists with the older gas-turbine engine, but equipped with the modified turret and 2nd generation reactive armor. In the photos here, this version is referred to as the T-80UD.

[Mobhack]

Nice info - but not on-topic for the thread's subject. T62. Tee Sixty Two.

Cheers
Andy

[DRG]

Agreed this is nice info and strays off the topic a bit with the T-80 info but one thing a lot of lists like this we have seen lack is introduction dates for the new models and upgrades. It's great to get the details ( and it is ) but much of the information we see lacks the critical in ( and out of ) service dates which is critcal information

What I would like to see is a list like that for all models ( T-54 all the way to t-90) with the service dates included.

If anyone has real hard data on all the models WITH the in service ( and out of service dates if possible ) which can be matched to the detailed information on what changed in the new model/upgrade we would all go a long way to putting this issue to bed finally.

Don

[MarkSheppard]

Nice info - but not on-topic for the thread's subject. T62. Tee Sixty Two.

Well, I didn't want to make another thread, and sort of wanted to keep the information in the same thread as the other Soviet tank stuff, so that it's easier to find for all of us