Stomping - Page 2

HoneyBadger · #11 January 10th, 2007, 10:44 PM

Yep, that's why I recommend Basalt Kings, you can sacred them up so they go berserk when the enemy shoots them, they work just as well underwater, and they're useful for more than just making infantry-juice.

Gandalf Parker · #12 January 10th, 2007, 11:29 PM

I always did ok against elephants using swarms of slingers. Plus it makes the elephants charge back thru their allies.

HoneyBadger · #13 January 10th, 2007, 11:41 PM

Yeah, elephants can't hold shields. In real life you could probably train them to hold shields with their trunks, and then they couldn't see where they were going and wouldn't have any more morale problems

krpeters · #14 January 11th, 2007, 01:03 PM

Lots of good ideas, thanks, it looks like there's a way to counter anything in Dominions, which is what makes it a great game

The best suggestion I saw was the cheap ethereal trick, dispossessed spirits. I think regular ethereal/high defense troops would be too expensive... LA Arcosephale elephants get three attacks per turn (trunk & 2 spear), so even without the trample I think they'd be strong against them.

How good are slingers against high-protection but shieldless troops? LA Elephants have strong armor too.

That's probably the best strategy -- lots of high-def troops up front to absorb the charge, lots of slingers/archers in the back to actually do damage.

Gandalf Parker · #15 January 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM

They dont do alot of damage. But elephants seem to be routed esily by a rain of missiles. Thats actually better than killing them since they rout back thru their own troops and trample them. If you are lucky, maybe even one of the commanders.

PDF · #16 January 11th, 2007, 01:41 PM

In MP elephants are not that useful when the opponent expects them, as many said.
Yet if you have either Berserk, "Ironed", Ethereal and/or Flying (lol) Elephants (through spells Berserkers, Iron Warriors, Body Ethereal and Flight), they're rather fun and more difficult to counter/kill

.
Behemoths are a nice variant, they're rather "better" tramplers because they don't rout, but have very low MR and are banishable (undead).

NTJedi · #17 January 11th, 2007, 02:01 PM

Quote:

PDF said:
Behemoths are a nice variant, they're rather "better" tramplers because they don't rout, but have very low MR and are banishable (undead).

They're pretty expensive for 10gems too since a pack of PaleRiders are the same price. A truly very powerful cheap summon are the Umbrals from Argatha... they're only 2 death gems, big&strong, 18MG resist and super nasty.

Jack_Trowell · #18 January 11th, 2007, 02:39 PM

@krpeters : an unit that is trampling do not make any other attack.

Those attacks are only used agains ennemy of equal of larger size (meaning that LA arco elephant have at least a more decent chance of fighting versus other size-6 units (mainly others elephants, as dragons and titants SC won't usually have much difficulty to win)

Taqwus · #19 January 11th, 2007, 04:19 PM

Iron Dragons are flying, unbreakable tramplers... but if memory serves, there MR is not that high for the research level, and you still aren't allowed to do a flying body slam.

The whole "doesn't use its other attacks" bit is why I rarely build Boots of the Behemoth or the Stymphalian Wings.

(Edit: addition)
In addition, aye, it's pretty true that pretty much anything can be stopped by something. That counter may require much research or luck, and there are sometimes balance issues (see the arguments regarding Helheim/Vanheim in blitzes, the extremely high utility of lifedraining weapons and quickness boots in the previous iteration), but the game isn't really designed among nigh-unstoppable superunits.

Not like you've got just a platoon of M4A3s staring across a 2km open plain versus a hull-down Jagdtiger which is already positioned to aim at a bridge you've been ordered to cross. Even a lowly Flagellant has a slight chance to cause some lasting pain... especially if it's D9 or B9 blessed, and the target's defense has been lowered by swarming and fatigue (or better, paralysis).

Even a Tartarian Titan with Magebane + Aegis will be, at a minimum, paralyzed by a Petrify spell, or sent to Inferno with the Infernal Sword, or seriously wounded if hit by Gifts from Heaven, or taking unstoppable damage from Dust to Dust or Wither Bones, or so forth. There are ugly situations, some potentially quite unfair (Ancient Presence event smacking capital or getting 2x 3000-gold + magic items events early might also be huge) but there's normally more than one possible counter rather than a strict hierarchy of tactics or anything unbeatable.

krpeters · #20 January 12th, 2007, 01:41 PM

On elephants vs. ethereals... well, I just found out the hard way that you guys were right. I just tried to take a castle from Midgaard, and I ran into an army of dispossessed spirits. My elephants won, but took significant casualties (a pack of 30 elephants normally wipes out 100 light infantry with no casualties at all)

Then Midgaard struck back with spring hawks, and my elephants got ripped apart brutally.

So... the moral seems to be, tramplers are great in the early game before ethereal troops show up. After that, it looks like it's better to switch over to knights (if you have them -- LA Arcosephale has "companions")