Improving the game (was: fighters and more)

[President_Elect_Shang]

Has anyone else noticed the fighters don�t behave properly? For instance I had a carrier with 12 fighter bays. I launched them as fast as I could and they all emerged at the same time and interposed; it was a heck of an explosion!

Reloaded game and launched the fighters at a slower pace; some went out to meet the enemy others slammed into my carrier. I lost four of the 12 that way!

Fighters cost a butt load (mine were level 18) and they get whooped so quickly. What�s the point of shelling out a fortune just to watch them get chewed up? I sent out eight against a pirate cruiser only to have three survive. There is no way I could make up my cash from selling the parts I scavenge so why have fighters in the first place?

On two separate occasions I have ordered fighters to land only to have them line up behind the ship and sit there. I have the bays and they are open so why are they just sitting there? Could it be because I have extra fighters in storage? If so why do I have to carry the exact number of fighters when they get chewed up so quickly? I should be allowed to carry extra if I have the storage space! Or what about fighters that circle below the ship because they can�t land? That has to be a calculation error in the software. At least I can pull forward a little, stop, and then they will start landing again but I shouldn�t have to do that. Since we are talking about landing why do I have to be at a complete stop for them to land? That is not anywhere close to any level of accuracy for a wet navy much less a space based one where all the rules are different when it comes to operating fighters.

In SE I could customize my fighters but here I can�t; why is it than that I can scavenge parts from fighters after a battle?

And it�s not just the fighters that like to slam into objects. I was in Earth orbit picking up some cargo to transport and a TFN battleship hits Earth! Some of the parts left from the crash where stuck half in the planet meaning that I could not recover them but I could see half of them sticking out.

On one mission I was hunting down an escaped prisoner. When I found him I used an asteroid field between us to shield his missiles until I could close the range. Can you guess what happened next? I finished the mission without ever firing a shot as he ran into an asteroid.

I can�t begin to count the number of times the enemy has rammed into each other. For that matter I can�t even begin to count the number of times I have been rammed by enemy and friendly alike! Anymore when I play I save, save, save and always give both sides as wide a birth as possible.

Before anyone asks yes I am patched up to the latest version and yes I know this is MM�s first shot at a game like this but it has been out for how long? I spent 20.00 on this game and now I am wishing I had just gone out to eat.

[Q]

Yes damage collision is a major problem, especially with many fighters. You might set the damage amount to zero to get rid of this annoyance (campaigndata file).

[President_Elect_Shang]

I thought about that, and drastically lowering the cost of fighters since they are throw away units anyway. I appreciate the advice but what I am actually aiming at is to gauge how many other players have this problem and possibly to draw out other flaws in the game. I am in contact with MM by email now and I would like to present a list of needed fixes to them.

Something like collisions should be an easy fix (relatively speaking) since that is a matter of telling the AI how to plot its path. There should be a chance for collision since we are talking about high speed combat in close quarters in a two dimensional combat space. If you really think about it there should be no collisions unless you want to collide, space isn�t two D even if game restrictions keep us limited to that.

[douglas]

President_Elect_Shang said:
Some of the parts left from the crash where stuck half in the planet meaning that I could not recover them but I could see half of them sticking out.

You might have been able to recover them anyway. Your ship's model is at least a little bit bigger than the radius the game uses for collision detection, and the distance for picking things up might be slightly bigger than the collision radius. I remember once having almost half of my huge carrier actually inside a star with no ill effect. Save before trying this, of course, as even a tiny mistake could instantly kill you.

[President_Elect_Shang]

I tried, I failed, I reloaded.

[Suicide Junkie]

*DONT SET THE TIME RATE TO 8X*

That will give the ship AI enough time to plot courses around stellar objects.

2X is the most, except when cruising across an empty system just to get to the next warppoint.
Accelerated time also hurts fighters more because they have a lot more to avoid, and its all moving at once.

If you want to see some useful (but certainly not ubered) fighters, try the P&N ism campaigns. Be sure to bring them home for regular repair during longer combats.
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...lCampaigns.rar
If you start in episode two, you even get the opportunity to fly an experimental warp-capable fighter of your own!
(Beware of PDC when flying the fighter )

http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...0Homefront.rar
Supersized P&Nism for campaign 1 is even more so.
It makes planets somewhat more realistically huge, and ships tiny. Collisions are naturally harder. You will find that sensor components are more important, since you can't just eyeball things 1000 distance away

[President_Elect_Shang]

I never adjust the time rate. I don't mind waiting and it adds to the sense of the game (you can't fast forward in real life).

[Campeador]

Yes the fighters behave erratic at times. They do crash with each other, with your carrier, and they do not always obey the command of returning to ship, and as you mention they just line up behind your carrier, annoying.
As SJ point out, if the game goes too fast, collision occur more often. Collision also sometimes occurs to enemy ships in a group as they materialize on the map, as when you take a new mission. I personally do not try to group more than 3 ships together in a group to try to avoid the collisions within a group. When I have fighters around I slow down to half time, and also slow down my speed.
You CAN carry as many fighters as long as you have the storage space, but the maximum amount of fighters that you can launch is limited to the number of 'Fighter Bays' the carrier has. Also note that if the bays get damage the fighters cannot land/launch until they are repaired. You can scavenge fighter parts, but it depends on the damage they suffered, you can even scavenge totally unharmed fighters from enemy carriers, and use them right away.
8 fighters against a cruiser and 3 fighters survive is a good turn around. A cruiser is a powerful ship. It also depends on the cruiser, armor, shields, regeneration and weapons. Your fighters are not the only ships that goes up in levels, the enemy ships also goes up. In general fighters are weak, but they do have a good strategic use, distraction. If you are facing 2 or 3 ships, they can divert the enemy fire that otherwise your ship may be receiving. A couple of fighters with beam weapons are not a big treat, but if they have missiles, as the ones on the Starblazer mod, they could definitely be a treat.
By the way I have killed my own fighters many times by firing torpedoes or missiles at enemy ships and my own fighters get on the way, or during combat the fighters sometimes slow down, and is me the one who hit them!
Yes I agree with you, there are a lot that could use a fix, and a lot that could be better, but there is also a lot of good gaming on it to be a good value for $20.

[Suicide Junkie]

Good to hear.

And definitely, slow down your launch rate... Traffic jams at the exit points are not good.

Oh, and the fighters lining up behind you... that's because you're going too fast. Stop, and the fighters will be able to slowly cruise in and land.

If you still feel that there is too much colliding, the supersize mod versions are available on imagemodserver.
Given the scale of stock, surely it is not surprising that those big vehicles bump, eh?

[President_Elect_Shang]

SJ I will have to try that mod and see what effect it has. As for the fighters lining up behind me yes I could see that if I was moving, but I wasn�t. Com on now I am not new to this stuff.

Campeador: Good advice but I know all that already, looking at the cost per fighter against the bang for your buck they are far too expensive. Compare the ratio of fire power to cost against SE and you will see just what I mean. As for slowing the game to half speed that won�t happen. I have been in touch with Aaron and hopefully as I run across more bugs and send up my save games some things can be improved/corrected.

As for the 20 bucks the game has a lot of potential, if it had even a quarter the fan base SE4 has the game would already be far more developed. What I am saying and I should rename the thread is that the few of us who do play can work on suggestions and send them to Aaron. Unlike other games Aaron gives a damn about his players and listens.

Now lets start discussing ways to improve the game and bugs we would like to see fixed; i.e. the fighters.