Riflemen have too much ammo

[Mustang]

I noticed that most riflemen in the game have 100 ammo points for their assault rifles. This means that they can keep on firing through the whole game without ever having to rearm. This is ridiculous- the Soviet rifleman carried three magazines, but in the game can keep firing for an hour straight! Most Mujahideen/Northern Alliance/third world militia type units go to war with ten or fifteen bullets in their gun. Why does the game give infantry soo much ammunition?

[junk2drive]

Maybe because it is a "game" that you play for fun?

[narwan]

Soviet riflemen actually had 4 magazines, 1 in the weapon and 3 spares. Times 30 is 120 rounds. The ammo load reflects single round fire for rifle types. If it is supposed to reflect bursts, I guess the ammo load should indeed be reduced.

Narwan

[Mustang]

It may be a game, but we try to make it fairly realistic- that's one of the big things about the entire Steel Panthers series. And giving riflemen hours of ammunition is a gross corruption of reality.

[Captain_Cruft]

This is an OOB issue, nothing to do with the game engine.

You can make your own OOBs with realistic infantry ammo capacities.

[hoplitis]

From the Mobhack manual, and in reference to what the ammo load out is: "HE - number of HE engagement opportunities this weapon has". I don't know if, for the main inf rifle, this means single bullets or a 3-5 bullet short (semi automatic) burst . Keep in mind that in actual combat situations many units in many armies have some spare ammo around and that "playability" maybe also a factor (as junk2drive suggested). In any case ammo loadout is an adjustable parameter so you can easily recreate "low ammo situations".

BTW most USA, USMC and Russia inf squads have 80-90 ammo points. Lighter inf maybe about 50-60.

[PlasmaKrab]

Hoplitis is right about infantry having more ammmo available than the bare orbats suggest at first sight. Not because regulations allow you to carry only 4 magazines plus 32 to 56 spare rounds in sealed pouches for or total weight of less than 7.45lb or such, that you rifleman will not take the initiative to lug on some more if it can save your life on the field.
Plus, IRL, mechanized/motorized units tend to store large amounts of ammo (if not actual spare weapons) in their carriers. This is particularly true of AT and ATGM teams some of which have been criticized for carrying incredibly high loadouts in game.
Since the game doesn't allow for stored spare ammo for single units (which would be quite a waste of time IMHO), that farther load has to be reflected in the infantry unit's loadout itself. QED.

[Mustang]

If each infantryman gets 5 shots per turn on his rifle, let's assume that each HE unit represents 1/5th of what an infantrymen fires in one turn (3 minutes). Maybe a 3-round burst. 80 ammo points equals 400 rounds per rifle, so I guess you might be right about Western troops that fire ammo conservatively and have plenty of resupply. But this does not hold true for third world (such as Soviet) troops, which typically offload whole magazines on full automatic, and are trained to dismount from their vehicle and charge toward the enemy positions. Not only would they run out of ammo quickly, but they wouldn't return to their APC to rearm. So these troops would have serious problems with ammo supply.

As for playability, I don't know what you guys think, but I like realism above all else.

[Cameronius]

Mustang, I personally would not include the Soviet army in the ranks of third world armies. Conscripts, yes. But trained conscripts. Soviet infantry, even reserves were (and are) taught fire discipline and ammo conservation. An AK-47 is most effective firing single aimed shots and the selector lever does have a repetition setting. The beauty of the game is that if you don't like it you can change it yourself. If you want to use a custom OOB in PBEM than just agree with your opponent on the parameters.

[Marek_Tucan]

While it is true my former classmate, now studying the Military University of Medicine, was issued three magasines for his vz.58 rifle during the training (and as he volunteered to be scout the others have asked him to leave two mags behind as he will anyway be killed before he can use them in MILES training - well, he wasn't;o)) OTOH I recall reading a Vietnam veteran's account where he stated he carried about 600 rounds of 5.56mm ammo plus a 50-rounf belt for M-60. Comat loads tend to be higher than the peacetime ones IMHO.