Mobhack Unit A0 Edit Question

[Akmatov]

GREAT GAME!!! THANKS!!!

I want to edit the A unit group to add some of the other units that would be a part of the HQ section, in addition to A0, of which it is a part, i.e. XO vehicle - A1, etc.

Mobhack recommends against subordinating formations, but I just want to add some units, i.e. an APC to carry the HQ element, etc.

I have successfully changed the type of unit that is the HQ element, i.e. from HQ unit to an HQ tank, but so far no additional subordinate units seem to work. I can look at them in Mobhack, but they don't show up in the game. I have successfully don't this with other versions of SP, SPMBT DOS I think, but I seem to be doing something wrong.

Advise would be appreciated.

[Mobhack]

Akmatov said:
GREAT GAME!!! THANKS!!!

I want to edit the A unit group to add some of the other units that would be a part of the HQ section, in addition to A0, of which it is a part, i.e. XO vehicle - A1, etc.

Mobhack recommends against subordinating formations, but I just want to add some units, i.e. an APC to carry the HQ element, etc.

I have successfully changed the type of unit that is the HQ element, i.e. from HQ unit to an HQ tank, but so far no additional subordinate units seem to work. I can look at them in Mobhack, but they don't show up in the game. I have successfully don't this with other versions of SP, SPMBT DOS I think, but I seem to be doing something wrong.

Advise would be appreciated.

You should be able to add an APC to the HQ (as long as that apc type is available 46-2020), and have a random APC come up alongside the HQ etc.

Changing the HQ to a non-HQ unit in the OOB is not recommended, so any playing about with that is at your own risk. (E.g. you say you changed it to a tank - is that unit class available throughout the entire life of the OOB in question?)

Cheers
Andy

[Akmatov]

Just checked here at work.

With Mobhack I can change the unit type for Unit 1 of Formation 001, the HQ Formation that is A0 in the game, and have it show up as I changed it in the game. Hence, I can make the HQ unit a HQ tank unit and have A0 change to a tank. But I can not add any other units to Formation 001. Hence, I couldn't leave the HQ as a 6 man group and add a vehicle for them or add vehicle units to the HQ Formation, Formation 001.

[Akmatov]

Checked last night to be really sure the vehicles I added to Formation 001 had the appropriate availablility dates - they did.

I changed slot A0 to unit 666-Bradley and slot A1 to the same. Then set up a battle in 2003 (this particular Bradley is available from 10/2001 to 12/1020). Unit A0 was a HQ Bradley and unit A1 was blank.

So the problem is not avalibility dates. It seems that it is impossible to add additional units to formation 001. Which is a pain if you want to set it up as a HQ formation.

Am I missing something or is this a bug?

[Mobhack]

Akmatov said:
Checked last night to be really sure the vehicles I added to Formation 001 had the appropriate availablility dates - they did.

I changed slot A0 to unit 666-Bradley and slot A1 to the same. Then set up a battle in 2003 (this particular Bradley is available from 10/2001 to 12/1020). Unit A0 was a HQ Bradley and unit A1 was blank.

So the problem is not avalibility dates. It seems that it is impossible to add additional units to formation 001. Which is a pain if you want to set it up as a HQ formation.

Am I missing something or is this a bug?

I just checked the last DOS version, as well as the windows version.

It appears I have put in code to ensure that the HQ formation only has the one slot (everything else, including units and any sub-formations) is ignored, as the HQ is only m,eant to be the A0, and the game expects this to be an HQ unit, though it seems I did not add any code to ensure the 1 allowed unit was indeed an HQ.

So - the old warning in the Mobhack text is outdated, as the code is already ensuring that OOBS do not have a load of randomly chosen units which the end user will have no way of changing in the initial buy.

So - the bug is that I need to update the Mobhack help file to remove the now redundant warnings re these sorts of AI-bought add-ons.



Cheers
Andy

[Akmatov]

Andy,

Thanks for taking the time to explain this one to me.

I had hoped I was just doing something wrong, but now I know better how the system works and will work within it.

I know I had been able to change the units within the A Formation in the past, I suspect it was with that 'other' SP decendant.

Once again many thanks for this wonderful game and I'll be buying a copy of the CD shortly.

William

[PlasmaKrab]

Andy, I know units can be transferred from one platoon HQ to another in scenarios or battle deploy. (they can, can't they?)

So, can this be done with the A0 as new HQ unit, so the HQ unit is changed to a custom HQ platoon in some special cases?
That doesn't mess up the OOB, if the unity check is only made at this level.

Thanks for any answer!

Plasma

[Mobhack]

PlasmaKrab said:
Andy, I know units can be transferred from one platoon HQ to another in scenarios or battle deploy. (they can, can't they?)

So, can this be done with the A0 as new HQ unit, so the HQ unit is changed to a custom HQ platoon in some special cases?
That doesn't mess up the OOB, if the unity check is only made at this level.

Thanks for any answer!

Plasma

In a SCENARIO - the BGHQ is a "company" formation, and so can have subordinate formations x-attached, and also subordinated units x-attached directly to make a command platoon. No problem. you can also change the HQ unit to a tank or whatever as desired (but will lose the HQ abilities as an "almost" FOO, and the fact that a 6 man infantry formation is usually more damage-tolerant than a vehicle).

In the OOB, the original code allowed designers to add subordinates, HOWEVER - the AI would choose these at random from whatever was available at that point in time as part of the automatic HQ purchase. This was a total pain if it chose the wrong APC/Tank or whatever as the end user could not choose it manually, or change it (scenario editors could, but scenario editing allows the flexibility to add as desired anyway).

And it was also a total pain for those folk who wanted a small battle (based on a rifle coy say) and then got these "default" troops added, eating up the small points allocation - any as sub formations could be deleted (if the end user knew how !) - but any thrown into the BGHQ as defaults in the A platoon, could not be manually removed. Some folk as I recall had "defaults" with HQ, an APC for him, an FOO, an arty battery and some SAM.. Way back in 96 or so, in some of my original hacked OOBS, I used this approach (briefly! as well - and found the lumps to be a problem in small-points forces for these reasons.

So - for stand alone battles, the BGHQ is now screened to the first slot only to stop such problems. I seem to have done this 18 months or so ago (It is in the DOS version).

Scenario designers can add as desired, and in a campaign, the end user can x-attach as well. In fact - he can x-attach in a generated battle as well. Therefore, any such "default lump of stuff in the HQ" OBATS are now obsolete. I probably put this sanity check into it at the time I did the new x-attach code (??) and forgot then to update the warning in the mobhack help file which was no longer necessary. I have now updated that paragraph in the help HTML, and that will update in the forthcoming patch.

Cheers
Andy

[PlasmaKrab]

Thanks for the answer, Andy, just what I wanted to know!

If I understood it all, in the default case (battle) the HQ remains as it is, and a scenario designer is able to add some subtleties to a command platoon if needed.

Thanks again!