Generated Campaign question.........

[KingTiger]

Ok, I think i understand this ALOT better now(thnx to your explanations DRG)So...anytime its a assault/defend, the attacker receives 2.5X support points, as the defender does....and in a advance/delay, the attacker receives 2.0X support points, as the defender. And im assuming with meeting engagements,its even points between both sides?

Now does this ONLY happen when support points are spent? In other words, if you decide not to spend any points what-soever, does the AI only use whats set in the preferences alloted amount?

[desh44]

DRG...a quick question on points. When playing a generated campaign do you need to set the point value for your opponent in preferences. If I leave this area blank I always seem to face vast numbers of enemy units. As an example if I set my points at 5000 I am fielding about 2 companies, 1 armor and 1 mech infantry. In a meeting engagement when the battle is over and I look at the enemy forces they will outnumber me 3 to 1. I was not sure if I should leave the enemy number blank and let the scenario dictate if there should be more points if it is not a meeting engagement or if I should place a number in this ares. Some of the campaign games I have played have has so many enemy units that I have had vehicles run completely our of ammo.

Aslo I would like to thank you and the team for all the work you have done making this game possible.

Tom D

[Mobhack]

KingTiger said:
Ok, I think i understand this ALOT better now(thnx to your explanations DRG)So...anytime its a assault/defend, the attacker receives 2.5X support points, as the defender does....and in a advance/delay, the attacker receives 2.0X support points, as the defender. And im assuming with meeting engagements,its even points between both sides?

Now does this ONLY happen when support points are spent? In other words, if you decide not to spend any points what-soever, does the AI only use whats set in the preferences alloted amount?

It is a RATIO, and what either side gets is based on the total points spent by player 1 (core+any supports bought) and the battle type and which side of the battle you are on.

meeting engagement - points are equal
advance - attacker gets 2 times the delayer + objectives in his half
assault - assaulter gets 2.5 times the defender, + defender gets dug-in bonus + objectives usually more valuable and in oewn half.

(I think - those are the correct multipliers off the top of my head !

It does not matter if the opponent is the AI or another human - all use the same ratios.


Assume your campaign core is worth 2000 points.

so - if you have a meeting engagement and buy 400 supports then the AI who is also on a meeting engagement will get an additional 400 points to spend.

core 2000+400 support = 2400 so the AI gets 2400 buy points.

if you had spent nil on support then your force value would be worth 2000, so the AI gets 2000 points to buy troops in that case.


If you were delaying and bought 400 support, then your force value would again be raised by 400, so the AI gets an additional 400*2 = 800 more buy points because you added 400 when delaying as that is the ratio used.

core 2000+400=2400 so the AI (or human) opponent gets 2400*2 = 4800 buy points.

if you had foregone the 400 support points then
core 2000 = 2000 so the opponent would now only get 2000*2=4000 buy points.



If you were advancing and the AI (or human opponent) delaying, and you bought 400 support points, then the AI delayer would get 200 more points to delay (400/2) with as that is the ratio based on battle type and posture.

2000+400=2400 so opponent in delay gets 2400/2=1200 points.

etc.

Any support points you buy are added to your core's value of course in a campaign to get the total force value. In a generated battle you have no supports - or rather all points spent are on "supports".

Your force value before any ratio is applied is therefore core value + support points bought.

It is simply basic arithmetic.

Cheers
Andy

[Mobhack]

desh44 said:
DRG...a quick question on points. When playing a generated campaign do you need to set the point value for your opponent in preferences. If I leave this area blank I always seem to face vast numbers of enemy units. As an example if I set my points at 5000 I am fielding about 2 companies, 1 armor and 1 mech infantry. In a meeting engagement when the battle is over and I look at the enemy forces they will outnumber me 3 to 1. I was not sure if I should leave the enemy number blank and let the scenario dictate if there should be more points if it is not a meeting engagement or if I should place a number in this ares. Some of the campaign games I have played have has so many enemy units that I have had vehicles run completely our of ammo.

Aslo I would like to thank you and the team for all the work you have done making this game possible.

Tom D

in a campaign game the enemy force uses your core + support values, so playing around with the preferences values after buying the troops in the set-up is therefore of no consequence - it is ignored by the campaign buy routines.

The only time the campaign code looks at the player 1 points value in a campaign is when you generate the campaign in the first place. Air strike count is internal - it ignores those set in preferences when building capmpaign battles and uses the normal air superiority value tacles built into the code.

The AI will likley outnumber you, if it has cheaper tanks and lower experience, but the points values will be the same. You can easily get 3 T-54 for the price of 1 Chieftain, and 2-3 platoons of cheap low experience conscript infantry for the price of say a USA rifle platoon with 3 expensive dragon ATGM in each platoon.

A pound is worth 100 pence, I can have a nice gold pound coin, or 2 big silver 50P pieces or 5s silver 20p or 10 silver 10p pieces, or 20 5p pieces or 100 bronze 1p pieces. Your force is probably mainly "10p" or "20p" pieces and you are looking at the AI who has bought plenty of "5 pence" and 1 penny items and the odd 10p one. Both will still add up to a pound's value, it is just that the vast pile of penny items looks more impressive than your few high-value "coins".

Remenber also that your core after a few battles will have gained experience - what you bought for 100 pence 5 battles back, may now be valued at 125 pence!

Try this. Set up a game as human on all the 6 buttons. Set the same battle type etc. same opponents. Buy the same as your core. once done, you will get to buy the other side to the same value. Buy other side forces similar to what you saw - you may well be surprised at how much they can get for the same "money" if their units are less capable, their morale is lower and ditto thier training/experience.

Cheers
Andy

[desh44]

Thanks Andy....appreciate the info and your quick reply....I have been playing for quite some time now and at times it seemed like trying to stop the ocean tides from rolling over me. I might try with low grade stuff the next time and upgrade later in the campaign.

I also appreciate all the work you have gone to with the game. This game will always have a place on my computer hard drive.

Tom D

[desh44]

Thanks Andy....appreciate the info and your quick reply....I have been playing for quite some time now and at times it seemed like trying to stop the ocean tides from rolling over me. I might try with low grade stuff the next time and upgrade later in the campaign.

I also appreciate all the work you have gone to with the game. This game will always have a place on my computer hard drive.

Tom D

[KingTiger]

So preference settings(as far as the amount for AI to spend on units) is ignored completely in a generated campaign?

[DRG]

KingTiger said:
So preference settings(as far as the amount for AI to spend on units) is ignored completely in a generated campaign?

Yes because the computer buys to a set % based on your force value. You can expand your core and buy support units so the AI cannot be forced to buy to a limit set in preferences because it's going to change every battle you play.

For example. If you set up a generated battle and set P1 to 3000 points and the P2(AI) side to XXX the AI will buy the following points for itself in these five battle types

defend-1200 points
delay- 1500 points
meeter-3000 points
advance-6000 points
assault- 7500 points

remember the ADVANCING player always gets 2x the points and an ASSAULTING player get 2.5x the points no matter if it's you or the AI doing the advancing or assaulting

However, in a campaign it's different every game. You can expand your core, get various numbers of support point or even get yourself into a situation where you cannot afford to fix you entire core so your overall force value is lower. That is why setting the P2's point value in a campaign is overridden in the code to maintain the 2.0x and 2.5x ratios for all battle types. If we allowed you to set the AI's points in a campaign to say 3000 points max. it would end up being wildly unbalanced from battle to battle

When playing generated battles or campaigns remember to "Know thy enemy". If you are going to fight Ugandans in the Jungle don't buy your force as it you were going to battle Russia on the North German plains. You won't need all the high tech toys. They don't work well against an army that relies on cheap manpower so leave the 492 point M1A2 Abrams and 116 point Abn TOW Team at home and think MG's and arty and light infantry.

Don

[KingTiger]

Thnx alot guys for the detailed explanations, its helped emmensely! One more question, as im trying to find a comfortable battle ground. If the heavy AI preference is off during a generated campaign, does this also get ignored?(does the AI still buy mad amount of tanks regardless) I know that some of the preferences ARE used during generated campaigns.

[Mobhack]

KingTiger said:
Thnx alot guys for the detailed explanations, its helped emmensely! One more question, as im trying to find a comfortable battle ground. If the heavy AI preference is off during a generated campaign, does this also get ignored?(does the AI still buy mad amount of tanks regardless) I know that some of the preferences ARE used during generated campaigns.

As we have said - the BUY POINTS are calculated on your current force value.

AI TANK HEAVY is not points values - so if you have tank heavy set on it will use that, just like FAST ARTY.

The campaign will ignore whatever you have curently set in BUY POINTS and AIR STRIKES (apart from battle 1 where it of course uses the P1 BUY POINTS as the upper imit for the initial buy)

Andy