How to use Golems?

[Boron]

Oversway said:
Boron - I was thinking someone would put jade armor or boots of quickness on a golem. So +3 attack right? But I agree, the 8 base attack & defense is rather problematic.

Yeah i forgot that. Thanks .
I modified the minimap now i start testing various golem builds vs. various banelord builds.

I found out though that Graemes statement is untrue:

Graeme Dice said:

Troops with a base encumbrance of 0 do not get fatigued when hit with a lifedrain weapon. Nor will the lifedrain weapon drain anything from the lifeless golem.

The golem gets encumbered just as any other unit from my test-bloodthorn banelord.


Here first test:
Golem:

Bane Lord:


Golem casts twist fate and astral weapon, gives him 28 fatigue.
Setup 1:
Both attack same province at the same turn.

Battle 1:
Golem wins easy.

Battle 2:
Golem wins, is hit only once, 35 fatigue at end of combat.

Battle 3:
Golem wins easily.

Setup 2:
Banelord has first attack.

Golem also wins the 3-4 testbattles easily, probably thanks to the twist fate.

[Boron]

Test 2:
The banelord has changed, another rather "standard" one:


Setup:
Banelord has the first 2 attacks, golem is unbuffed, scripted to twist fate and astral weapon, then attack closest.

Battle 1:
Golem down to 65 hp,forgot to check fatigue, then banelord dead.

Battle 2:
Golem down to 19 hp and 67 fatigue.

Battle 3:
Golem down to 79 hp and 34 fatigue.

Battle 4:
Golem down to 85 hp and 31 fatigue.

Battle 5:
Golem down to 85 hp and 49 fatigue, wonder how that worked, still full hp but 21 fatigue from hellsword?

Anyway the golem wins vs. this cheap but suboptimal banelord easily even though the banelord has first strike and attacks while buffing !

[Oversway]

Go Golem!

I suppose with the 3x damage it'd usually kill the bane lord on the first (successful) hit.

[Boron]

Test 3:
"Anti-Golem-Banelord"


The golem has also slighty changed, replaced the lucky coin with charcoil shield as suggested by Zen in an earlier post.
Script for golem is now Luck,Astral Weapon,Attack closest.

Test 1: All odds for the Banelord, he gets attacked by the golem, hence the first two strikes go to the banelord, then the golem has to buff.
Let's see if he can kill the golem under these excellent conditions.

Battle 1:
Banelord wins after a few rounds, golem never hits him, Golem down to 43 hp in first round, to 20 hp in 2nd round, to 1 hp in third round, killed in fourth round.
Golem never hits the banelord, he just loses 1 hp to the fireshield from charcoil shield.

Battle 2:
Banelord down to 35 hp.

Battle 3:
Banelord down to 41 hp.

This special Banelord is only useful vs. constructs though with the smasher weapon.

I will try another Banelord now with a AN weapon which will be more widely useable as antiSC-Banelord.

[Boron]

Test 4:
Gatecleaver Banelord


Other gear: Idea is to maximize attack, the banelord has to kill in the first round.
If he hits with both attacks he should succeed.

Golem is still the charcoil shield golem.

Battle 1:
The Banelord hits with first attack, Golem down to 38 hp, got also an affliction, lost one eye.
Now the weird: The banelord misses his second attack ... vs. 13 defence only.
Golem kills the bane with one strike then, was extremely lucky.

Battle 2:
Banelord again fails one attack, Golem survives with 27 hp and affliction neverhealing wound... .

Battle 3:
Banelord hits with both attacks, Golem dead.

Battle 4:
Banelord hits with both attacks, Golem dead.

Battle 5:
Banelords hits once, Golem down to 27 hp, affliction weakened, kills banelord then.

Battle 6:
Banelord misses the Golem with both attacks ?
Really weird ... . The Golem has 13 Defence, no luck since he couldn't buff yet, Banelord has 25 Attack.

The attack calculator from sunrays site gives 98,8% chance of hitting under these circumstances, for 2nd attack it should even be 99,2%.

In those 6 battles the banelord had 5 failed attacks though and 6 successful ones?
That should be statistically really rare to happen?
Or is it a sign that the attack calculator is not working 100% and there is maybe something hidden in the game mechanics like a cap that the chance to hit can never be higher than 80% or something like that?

[FrankTrollman]

Since the attack and defense dice are open ended, there is always going to be a 16.7% chance that any die is going to be a +5 with an additional d6 added on. So it takes some serious cojones to get your chance to hit above about 80%. To the best of my knowledge, there is no absolute cap at that point, but I'm not sure if the attack calculator is taking into account the exploding dice.

-Frank

[Kuritza_Dru]

Hmmm. I was thinking about using a Star of Thralldom for my Golems, for +6 attack is really helpful for these poor clumsy guys. Is that weapon absolutely hopeless?

[Zen]

A few clarifications: When I mentioned the Charcoal Shield it was intended for False Horror/Undead Spammer reactionary force. Which tends to be more of an issue in the timeframe I suggested earlier (20-35).

Also late in the game the golems are good for Immortal Duty, from Vampires to Demi-liches in particular are easy to kill with Golem attacks.

For Banelord Duty, the setup that Boron suggested works fine. Of course Banelords can be equipped with items that will defeat golems. But on the flip side, you only need one item to turn the tide on the Banelord/Wraithlord attack force which happens to be a Wraith Crown (for it's Undead Horde ability for chaff).

Usually you can use one Golem with a Wraith Crown and suppliment it's astral to teleport with a Crystal Coin along with normal equipment then 2+ equipped to kill whatever it is you happen to be needing to kill.

I have found that in this particular scenario, it's rare that someone will be prepared to fight against a decent construct army, as most people rely heavily on Mechanical Men and Living Statues for construct support.

Re: Boosters.

When I said Boosters I ment from other (pretender, Indy mages, or Summons). When something can craft it's own booster (like Mystics with Starshine Skullcaps or Crystal Coins) to cast a spell I put it in the 'easy' category.

Also considering that at max, a Mystic will need 10 Earth/10 Astral (even on those Mystics who only get 1 Earth) to create golems, it's much more likely.

I also believe that starspawns are split Randoms like S&A Celestial Masters. 1 Elemental 1 Sorcery. I'm not 100% certain but I believe so.

[Alneyan]

Zen said:
I also believe that starspawns are split Randoms like S&A Celestial Masters. 1 Elemental 1 Sorcery. I'm not 100% certain but I believe so.

I got one Starspawn with Air 2, and another with Nature 1+Death 1, so they are full randoms.

[Maltrease]

Teleporting SC assassin squad. Works best in pairs.

Two Swords of Quickness.
Astral Cap
Jade Armor
Flying Boots
2 Stone Birds

Astral Weapon, then attack.

4 Armor Negating Attacks
8 Worthless Bird Attacks
Now... opponent is at -12 defense.
4 More Armor Negating Attacks
8 Worthless Bird Attacks

Now if you have a second golem. The SC is at -24 defense.

If only the Astral Weapon affected the Bird Attacks...