US: Stop Congress from making iPod or VCRs illegal

[Gandalf Parker]

Raging Deadstar said:

Remmeber, Just because it is Illegal doesn't make it Morally Wrong It's not the Artists who are getting hurt, it's the Music Industry Fat Cats and their obscene profits.

Obscene profits is rather an impossibility in an old industry. There is no OPEC here controlling profits. If there were obscene profits then there would be more artists starting their own company in order to "fix" the problem. (rather like how Tim Brooks decided to switch from developer for awhile to publisher starting Shrapnel Games)

[magnate]

Actually Gandalf I would liken the funding members of IFPI very much to OPEC. The major record labels and major Hollywood studios *do* talk to each other about prices. (I'm not sure about games companies.) They don't charge what they think is a fair price for a CD, they charge "what the market will bear", ie. as much as they can get away with. That's why, here in the UK, the majors are so upset about the supermarket chains undercutting them and selling CDs for as little as �10 (about US$16), and *still* making a big profit on them.

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[Gandalf Parker]

magnate said:
about games companies.) They don't charge what they think is a fair price for a CD, they charge "what the market will bear",

Well "what the market will bear" is often referred to as commerce. Supply and Demand. Thats not quite the same as "obscene profits". The idea that a CD should cost little more than the cost of making a CD is done but its not seen much. Thats because the price of doing it that way doesnt let it be seen. The price charged for CD's now also cover marketing, research, the cost of the ones that do well have to cover the cost of the ones that flop, and the cost of running the company. Whats left over after that is profit.

Gandalf Parker

[narf poit chez BOOM]

0.11 profit for the artists...

[Solymr]

I'm glad I live in Australia sometimes, sure our Music CD's cost $30AU and our games all come out at $89-$99AU
each, but the simple fact that our goverenment is so far behind the times they're only starting to be aware of P2P and MP3 piracy amazes me. This whole copyright infringment issue could have been avoided years ago if the Music industry and Hollywood caught on instead of putting their heads in the sand. The idea of iTunes is probably the best way to "overcome" priacy. I say "overcome" because its reasonable to assume piracy will never full stop, it'll always happen in some shape or form no matter what technology we may use to try stop it.

However, if we follow the idea of iTunes and make it easier for these people to buy the product and download it from a site for a cheaper price then going out and buying a packaged Version from a store, it'd at least move us in a direction that would discourage piracy. From iTunes, a movie company could create a site where you can download movies for a certain price each. Then you could also have a similar site where you could purchase CD Image files for a price each and then download them. All this could be controlled by an encryption key, allowing only ones with the key use of each file. While this isn't a fool-proof idea, I believe it is a step in the right direction which can't be as bad as just putting heads in the sand and hoping the nasty pirates will stop/be caught/die horrible deaths or so on.

[David E. Gervais]

FYI: In the game industry it's a rare thing where a publisher gets to determine the final product price. That responsibility falls on the retailer. There is such a thing as a MSRP (manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) But there are laws against "Price Fixing" (here in Canada at least) So if a retailer buys a game for 32$ it can sell anywhere from $39.95 to $79.95. It all depends on what kind of markup the store wants. When I Managed a computer department I would mark up the games at approximately 100% ($32 = $64.95) With good clients (AKA 'Regulars') I'd go as low as $49.95 which was still a healthy mark-up. and with the everyday crowd, I'd be nice and sell the game at $59.95. Everybody is happy to get a discount, even a $5 dollar one. Bottom line the retailer is the one who has 'room to bargain' the developer and publisher generally get about $10/game after expenses.

An Online publisher is a rare breed that does get to set their retail price, and although most Online publishers make a 'healthier' profit, their sales tend to be on the short side. For example, a game is considered a success in retail if it sells 100,000 copies, compared to about 15,000 copies by an Online publisher. Sure the publisher and it's developers can and do make a good living this way, but they have a struggle getting their products in the mainstream.

Nuf said, Cheers!

[Suicide Junkie]

Solymr said:However, if we follow the idea of iTunes and make it easier for these people to buy the product and download it from a site for a cheaper price then going out and buying a packaged Version from a store, it'd at least move us in a direction that would discourage piracy.

There was also a point made by somebody I don't recall, about how lately the "legit" software is coming with more and more spyware and other nonsense, and they get hacked to remove it.

When downloading a hacked Version becomes safer than buying it, things will really be in a bad state.

[Phoenix-D]

Gandalf Parker said:

Well "what the market will bear" is often referred to as commerce. Supply and Demand. Thats not quite the same as "obscene profits"..(snip)
Gandalf Parker

OTOH, the music industry *did* get convicted of price fixing recently. Parts of supply and demand only work if you have competition in the supply area. Monopolies and price fixing remove that part of the system.

[magnate]

Solymr said:
This whole copyright infringment issue could have been avoided years ago if the Music industry and Hollywood caught on instead of putting their heads in the sand. The idea of iTunes is probably the best way to "overcome" priacy. I say "overcome" because its reasonable to assume piracy will never full stop, it'll always happen in some shape or form no matter what technology we may use to try stop it.

However, if we follow the idea of iTunes and make it easier for these people to buy the product and download it from a site for a cheaper price then going out and buying a packaged Version from a store, it'd at least move us in a direction that would discourage piracy. From iTunes, a movie company could create a site where you can download movies for a certain price each. Then you could also have a similar site where you could purchase CD Image files for a price each and then download them. All this could be controlled by an encryption key, allowing only ones with the key use of each file. While this isn't a fool-proof idea, I believe it is a step in the right direction which can't be as bad as just putting heads in the sand and hoping the nasty pirates will stop/be caught/die horrible deaths or so on.

It's funny, I said almost exactly that to the UK music industry six years ago when I worked in a gov't-industry liaison role. Better later than never I guess ....

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