Unique ruins techs

Nitram Draw · #1 June 11th, 2001, 04:57 PM

Does anyone use the unique ruins techs?
I haven't found much use for them. I was thinking of changing them to something more useful but I don't know if the AI even uses the current ones. Does anyone know if the standard AI's use them?

Sinapus · #2 June 11th, 2001, 05:36 PM

I was planning on making some newer Versions of the massive planetary shield to increase their power as the player advanced in shield technology. Alas, when I checked the facility stats I noted that the entry for the shield generation was different and there wasn't an equivalent for phased shields... or are those shield points phased already?

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"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

Suicide Junkie · #3 June 11th, 2001, 05:37 PM

The massive engine disruptors are pretty good, but you need a dedicated ship for them.

In my mod, I boosted the Planetary shields from 2000 to 20k, 50k and 75k (depending on tech level), so they are actually useful.
Hopefully, I will be able to mod planetary armor facilities, as well as phased planetary shield facilities.
Until then, planetary shields still work against AIs.

Nitram Draw · #4 June 11th, 2001, 05:39 PM

Have you ever seen the AI use them?

Jubala · #5 June 11th, 2001, 05:43 PM

I never use them. The weapons are just to big and expensive, especially for one shot wonders. And the planetary shield just doesn't give enough protection for the time and resources it takes to build it. Imo that time is better spent building weapon platforms. In the same you can build a planetary shield you can easily build enough weapon platforms with 8000+ shield strenght and weapons as well. Compare that to the planetary shields 2000 shield strenght. And if you have the tech you can make those platform shields phased. Which the planetary one is not. Guess what I'll build? If the planetary shield was cheaper, phased and stronger I'd probably build it.

Nitram Draw · #6 June 11th, 2001, 05:48 PM

What do you think would be good unique techs that would benefit the AI and humans?
I had thought of a maintenance reduction facility/component, an extra movement generator, and special higher level ECM and combat sensors. I want something the AI will use without a lot of changes being made. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Suicide Junkie · #7 June 11th, 2001, 06:06 PM

quote:
Have you ever seen the AI use them?

Nope. None of the AI designs have space reserved for components that they will sometimes never get.

Baron Munchausen · #8 June 11th, 2001, 06:29 PM

It's really difficult to design ruins techs that the AI could benefit from. They are almost by definition 'special case' techs that allow or even require special strategies. Since you can change these techs in the text files it's a bit hard to design an AI that can understand and use them. Even so, you COULD make the AI at least put the components in ships. I've modified some of the AI files for the races on my local copy of SE to use the Neural Combat Net if they get it. You could create a special ship design for each race to use the Massive Shield Depleter or Massive Engine Destroyer. Put only the spcial weapon family in the design and then put "must have weapon" on it. It won't be built unless that special tech is found.

There ought to be more special techs, anyway. And it's not too hard to think of some good ones. How about a cloaking device that gives level 5 cloaking in everything so it is undetectable? An AI which got that would almost certainly use it (the AI is smart enough to use the 'best' Version of whatever is available) and would be really dangerous with it. A special type of engine that gives very low supply usage would be good. I've got one in my techs. The AI would probably not be smart enough to use this properly, though. I wonder if planetary shields can be regenerated like ship shields? I have planetary shields in my 'normal' tech tree because I think anyone would think of them. But I haven't tried regeneration. If it can work, then a ruins tech that regenerates planetary shields would be really cool. Or just give this ability to the "Massive Planetary Shields" and they have an extra advantage besides being more powerful.

rdouglass · #9 June 11th, 2001, 06:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
...There ought to be more special techs, anyway. And it's not too hard to think of some good ones. How about a cloaking device that gives level 5 cloaking in everything so it is undetectable? An AI which got that would almost certainly use it (the AI is smart enough to use the 'best' Version of whatever is available) and would be really dangerous with it. A special type of engine that gives very low supply usage would be good. I've got one in my techs...

Baron, I have to disagree on this one. Maybe a special component to enhance an existing tech tree, but not jump the whole thing - what would happen if an empire hadn't even researched Physics yet? (isn't Physics II a prereq for Cloaking?) Do they just jump all those tech levels (2 physics and 3 or 4 cloaks) - if they do, it could turn into a 'race for the ruins' game. And would the AI even look for them???

A good alternative may be a tech that enhances. Possibly one that boosts your existing cloak tech by 1 (then you could get to level 5 but not in 1 jump) or a 'conservation optimizer' that saves 20% on fuel and weapon consumption. I don't know if these things are possible, but IMO the big jumps in existing tech would unbalance the game.....

Nitram Draw · #10 June 11th, 2001, 07:27 PM

There could be some disadvantages to providing techs that "jump" tech trees but in order to get the AI to automatically use the special items they must have abilities that the AI uses normally.