Unit matchups

[moro]

Hi, I'm sure this is a really dumb question, but I've looked around and haven't been able to find the answer.

Do units and / or weapons have inherent advantages against another? (Aside from weapon range and how it applies to repel attempts.) For instance, in other games I've played, all else being equal, pikemen have an advantage against cavalry but are weak against regular infantry. (I don't know if this is historically accurate. )

When I see that a province has 20 heavy infantry, for example, I really don't have any idea what it takes to defeat them.

I'd appreciate any help. Thanks.

[HJ]

Morningstars have an advantage agaist shields, in a sense that they ignore the defense (and maybe prot, I don't know about that one) that comes from a shield. Also, ethereal units can be hurt as if they were nonethereal with magic weapons. Some wepons do x2 or x3 damage to undead/demons/magic beings. Other than that, if you mean regular units, no.

[Arryn]

Originally posted by moro:
Hi, I'm sure this is a really dumb question, but I've looked around and haven't been able to find the answer.

Do units and / or weapons have inherent advantages against another? (Aside from weapon range and how it applies to repel attempts.) For instance, in other games I've played, all else being equal, pikemen have an advantage against cavalry but are weak against regular infantry. (I don't know if this is historically accurate. )

When I see that a province has 20 heavy infantry, for example, I really don't have any idea what it takes to defeat them.

Not a dumb question at all.

I have not seen an inherent advantage in something like pike vs. cavalry. (It may be there, but I've not seen it.) The pike's advantage lay in that it was longer than the lance, so could reach the horseman (or his horse) before the lancer could strike. The pikeman would set the pike into the ground so that the earth, and not him, received the shock of impact when the pike hit the mass of the charging rider/horse. In Dom 2, it seems that the pike's only advantage is that it's longer. There does not appear to be the added bonus that a grounded pike would have vs. charging cavalry.

Some weapons do have advantages. Flails and morningstars ignore shield defenses, for example. This makes them better against things like HI, than swords or spears. Spears get the repel, but the high protection of the HI renders its weak damage fairly moot. Swords do more damage than flails/morningstars, but that damage has to be able to get past protection, hence the flail/morningstar's advantage.

If you have units with giant strength, then weaker but longer weapons become more useful because they can do enough damage to actually be effective on repel. Which is why I prefer spear-armed giants to axe-armed ones.

The best ways to counter HI are (IMO): magic, giants, lancers, your own HI, pikeman, and crossbows. In that order. (I don't claim this is the only way, incidently, just my prefernce.)

[Kjeld]

Unless specified, I don't think there is any hardcoded benefit for a weapon or weapon type against particular enemies.
AFAIK, only the properties of the weapons matter (ie : damage, attack, defense, range, and misc. specials like morningstar's shield bypassing ability, poison ...).
Unless I am mistaken, pikes are useful against charging cavalry, because you can repel the lance attack (pikes and long spears are longer), but that's it.

[Saber Cherry]

Originally posted by Arryn:
The best ways to counter HI are (IMO): magic, giants, lancers, your own HI, pikeman, and crossbows. In that order. (I don't claim this is the only way, incidently, just my prefernce.)

Undead are good too - they don't fatigue, and HI do.

[Bossemanden]

If you have units with giant strength, then weaker but longer weapons become more useful because they can do enough damage to actually be effective on repel. Which is why I prefer spear-armed giants to axe-armed ones.

IIRC this is wrong. Repel if succesfull deals 1 point of damage regardless of the strength of the guy carrying the weapon.

Edit: The main strenght of repel is that if succesfull it forces a morale check to see if the attacker actually carries through his attack or if he is intimidated by the longer weapon.

[ February 01, 2004, 00:31: Message edited by: Bossemanden ]

[Arryn]

Originally posted by Bossemanden:
IIRC this is wrong. Repel if succesfull deals 1 point of damage regardless of the strength of the guy carrying the weapon.

Edit: The main strenght of repel is that if succesfull it forces a morale check to see if the attacker actually carries through his attack or if he is intimidated by the longer weapon.

Incorrect on the automatic 1 damage.

Step 1: The defender (with longer weapon) must overcome the attacker's defense rating. If successful, move on to step #2.

Step 2: Attacker must check morale. If successful, move on to step #3.

Step 3: Defender hits attacker. Resolve as normal, except that damage is capped at 1. It is possible to do no damage at all. (This is where strength does matter.)

Step 4. Attacker hits defender. Resolve normally.

Please note that if the defender has extras such as poison, decay, etc. that the attacker can be killed by a repel that does "only" 1 point.

[ February 01, 2004, 00:51: Message edited by: Arryn ]

[olaf73]

Overall flails seem like the best weapon to use.

Aside from that though, the 'best' weapon seems to be very dependent on the unit you are facing.

olaf

[Arralen]

Originally posted by Arryn:
Please note that if the defender has extras such as poison, decay, etc. that the attacker can be killed by a repel that does "only" 1 point.

Shure about that?
I'm still waiting for a definite statement from the devs about it, or alternativly some "proofed statement" from a player, 'cause I haven't seen any poisoning from a repel so far.

[ February 01, 2004, 08:28: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[johan osterman]

There is a one point dmg max from successful repell attempts, but this is not a regular attack (code-wise) and would probably not use any specials of a weapon such as poison or fire, perhaps even magic (vs ethereals). Not sure though.