Suggestion: How to beef up light inf

[Kristoffer O]

Originally posted by Arralen:
I though about not moving into the same square with units of the same squad,
so differents squads from one commander or troops from different commanders could interpenetrate each other...

Could the game enigne handle this?

A.

Not currently, but it is a good solution. Part of the strength of the Roman legionary army was its manipular structure and a depth that enabled broken units to retreat behind the second or third rank to regroup. This way the enemies were constantly attacked by fresh soldiers. I am very fond of the manipular army, but the Dominions engine is not formation friendly.

The suggested system would work well with human sized units, but giants would not be able to pass through their own ranks. Currently Giants (size 4 beings) are the only unit that allows other units to pass through as they do not fill up a square. I like this fact, but giants are not LI and thus it is a bit backwards. Still LI and wolf riders can retreat through the giant ranks.

[PvK]

Originally posted by PDF:
...
- ABILITY TO REFUSE CLOSE COMBAT against heavier troops - this one is very important IMHO. For examples the role of Roman Velites was to fight enemy skirmishers, fire javelins on the enemy front ranks, and then retreat, not to engage Hannibal phalanx or elephants frontally !
...

This is a good point. How about a mechanic that would happen when the enemy approaches to melee range - if the enemy moving up clearly outmatch the friendly troops, and the friendly troops are faster then the approaching enemies, then the friendly troops step away (if possible), rather than letting themselves be hacked to bits. The units that step back would lose action points from their next turn equal to the distance they had to step back (so it's not a free increase in movement ability), and this would also reduce their effective speed for later checks (so surrounded fast units would still get caught).

This would also help freak accidents of the turn-based movement/combat, and other unfortunate plights, such as when a fast horse unit races out ahead, and gets hacked up by a mob of infantry, or if a bunch of infantry charge at a mage or mounted commander who could outrun them, but doesn't because it isn't in the AI script.

PvK

[Graeme Dice]

Giving units the ability to run away without routing would be a little powerful in the case of flying units. Caelum for example would be nearly uncatchable.

[Arralen]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Giving units the ability to run away without routing would be a little powerful in the case of flying units. Caelum for example would be nearly uncatchable.

archers: "fire at enemy flyers" ???

Thinking about it, it seems to me that this would make sense very well - realism and all

A.

[ November 23, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Keir Maxwell:
I'd just like to add that if this change worked it could go along way towards coping with the HI complex. If you can screen your not so heavily armoured close fighters from archery with skirmishers, who take lighter casualties despite their low protection, then more troop types become useful in a greater variety of roles.

Such a change allowing LI to skirmish would be great! Perhaps as an order, which spread them out to one unit per square, and allowed them to fire a few turns before falling back to regroup behind HI.

I realize interpenetration might be difficult in the tactical engine, but even without it the skirmish order would be a dramatic improvement. One could also fudge interpenetration by having units flee around troops in their way, rather than blindly fleeing straight back.

It would also help if those retreating from winning battles didn't scatter.

[PDF]

Well, in order to make LI something else than just CI (crappy Infantry ), it should have the advantages that it had historically :
- Loose formation, using more space, less affected by area fire and arrow volleys
- Bonuses when attacking from flank/rear - this should apply to all troops, but LI would benefit from their formation and speed to flank HI
- ABILITY TO REFUSE CLOSE COMBAT against heavier troops - this one is very important IMHO. For examples the role of Roman Velites was to fight enemy skirmishers, fire javelins on the enemy front ranks, and then retreat, not to engage Hannibal phalanx or elephants frontally !

I'm not sure all this can be done without a serious overhaul of the combat/battle system, but as it stands now LI is quite hopeless ...

[Arralen]

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Arralen:
I though about not moving into the same square with units of the same squad,...
Could the game enigne handle this?

A.

Not currently, but it is a good solution. ... I am very fond of the manipular army, but the Dominions engine is not formation friendly.

---

So there's a chance that it will be implemented in the patch?

Maybe there should be more checks for units:

• not moving LI in squares where another unit of the same squad already is
• not moving into squares where some damaging area effect is active (poison, auras)
• not moving right up to an enemy without having enough AP left to attack him (this could get a bit tricky, though. But even one square would be better than it is now, where my troops regularly line themselves up to be killed in the next combat turn)

Three flies to be squashed with the same piece of code ??

A.

[ November 28, 2003, 10:58: Message edited by: Arralen ]

[PDF]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:
Giving units the ability to run away without routing would be a little powerful in the case of flying units. Caelum for example would be nearly uncatchable.

Maybe they would need some changes (higher costs, less power, etc...), but it only reflect common sense : I wonder how a landlubber swordsman can ever catch a flyer who refuses combat !
MoM and AoW have nice features about it : non-flyers can only engage other non-flyers, only flyers can engage all

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by PDF:
MoM and AoW have nice features about it : non-flyers can only engage other non-flyers, only flyers can engage all [/QB]

MoM also had that timeout on combat which I abused ALOT. I loved to take flyers in and cast "confuse" or whatever that one was that opened a chasm. If it didnt work I just waited out the combat then tried again. Realistic? I guess so. But way too useful.

[Elmo]

Please allow me to add my 2 cents even though my copy of D2 has shipped but not yet arrived. LI should be unencumbered. By that I mean light weapons only and no armor. There would be two advantages. First, speed. They should be the poor mans cavalry with excellent flanking ability. Second, defense. They should be harder to hit than their more heavily armored (read slower) bretheren. I agree with the other points regarding refusing combat against slower attackers and a skirmish formation, if possible, to reduce any impact from ranged weapons/spells.

If all this is in the game already then just ignore this rambling.