some balance questions

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Pocus:
the Pythium battle deacon rose in price, from 80 to 90 gp. I wonder what motivated the change?

Can someone tell me how he is supposed to be used by the way? A prot 12 priest is fine, but I prefer a theurg mage/priest for the same price, any time.

I would have though, on the contrary, that he would be tweaked down to the 50-60 range (compare it to an indep priest, not armored, but costing 40).

Equip them with a cheap magic weapon (Enchanted Sword, Sword of Sharpness, whatever), bless and go kill things. The new bless effects can be better for this if your god has enough magic, so he's more expensive.

I agree that he suffers by comparison to the theurg acolyte, though. Theurg acolytes are one of the most cost-effective researchers in the game (sacred halves their upkeep), especially in a magic scale.

Pythium doesn't really have that much need for priests on the battlefield anyway - they have standards. (Except vs. undead/demons, or when using sacred troops.) Frankly my only concern about seeing something of Pythium get weaker/more expensive is "will it be enough to knock them down to a level with the other nations".

Indeed, some priests seem overpriced now (others have mentioned the hierodule got a price hike - why? Cheapness was her only asset. Now she's only useful in Miasma, or at the very beginning of the game when you don't have any other temples.)

[Psitticine]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Calanor:
One blood hunting mage per province sounds like a good solution, IMO.

Hmmm... I don't like that too much... it sounds artificial. I'm thinking that each turn, each province gets a hard cap on blood slaves, of ((2d6*)+(population)/2000). And each blood slave taken reduces the population by 1, or 5, or 1d6 (not 1d6*). You can search with as many commanders as you want, but there will only be so many slaves to find per turn per province... so you would avoid using too many commanders in a given province.

-Cherry

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Provinces already do have a cap on how many slaves can be taken, based on their population and current unrest level.

That second part can be the more important part. Blood hunting causes unrest in itself, and the more people doing it, the more unrest. That makes the hunt progressively harder and, eventually, fruitless until you bring the unrest down.

You can't rely on patrolling to curb unless you want to kill off your tax base and, in this case, your supply of new slaves. You just have to (temporarily) cut your taxes and wait for the masses to calm down again. If you "over-hunt" a province, it can totally destroy its value for a good while.

You can only squeeze so much blood out of the turnips . . .

[Pocus]

Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Equip them with a cheap magic weapon (Enchanted Sword, Sword of Sharpness, whatever), bless and go kill things. The new bless effects can be better for this if your god has enough magic, so he's more expensive.

I agree that he suffers by comparison to the theurg acolyte, though. Theurg acolytes are one of the most cost-effective researchers in the game (sacred halves their upkeep), especially in a magic scale.

He has only 11 HP and prot 12. I'm unsure I would put a magical item on him.

I overlooked something though : the indep priest is now down to command 10, whereas the deacon remained at 25. Can explain why someone rose his price from 80 to 90. But I think he was overpriced in dom I, so letting him remain at 80 was just putting him again in balance.

Psitticine :
Will the province limit on blood harvest be published in the manual

[Daynarr]

Originally posted by Psitticine:

quote:

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Originally posted by Saber Cherry:

quote:

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Originally posted by Calanor:
One blood hunting mage per province sounds like a good solution, IMO.

Hmmm... I don't like that too much... it sounds artificial. I'm thinking that each turn, each province gets a hard cap on blood slaves, of ((2d6*)+(population)/2000). And each blood slave taken reduces the population by 1, or 5, or 1d6 (not 1d6*). You can search with as many commanders as you want, but there will only be so many slaves to find per turn per province... so you would avoid using too many commanders in a given province.

-Cherry

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Provinces already do have a cap on how many slaves can be taken, based on their population and current unrest level.

That second part can be the more important part. Blood hunting causes unrest in itself, and the more people doing it, the more unrest. That makes the hunt progressively harder and, eventually, fruitless until you bring the unrest down.

You can't rely on patrolling to curb unless you want to kill off your tax base and, in this case, your supply of new slaves. You just have to (temporarily) cut your taxes and wait for the masses to calm down again. If you "over-hunt" a province, it can totally destroy its value for a good while.

You can only squeeze so much blood out of the turnips . . .

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Blood Hunting also reduces population somewhat.

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by Pocus:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris Byler:
Equip them with a cheap magic weapon (Enchanted Sword, Sword of Sharpness, whatever), bless and go kill things. The new bless effects can be better for this if your god has enough magic, so he's more expensive.

I agree that he suffers by comparison to the theurg acolyte, though. Theurg acolytes are one of the most cost-effective researchers in the game (sacred halves their upkeep), especially in a magic scale.

He has only 11 HP and prot 12. I'm unsure I would put a magical item on him.

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Well, it depends on your bless effects (and on the item - most weapon items have better DEF than built in weapons, in particular since he doesn't have a shield (IIRC) you can give him a 2 handed weapon like thorn staff, which has +5 DEF.)

He's obviously overpriced if you're just using him to build temples and preach; even for the occasional bless and banish he seems expensive. If he has any use, it has to be his ability to fight somewhat.

I guess if you have a really killer blessing (like fire 9) you don't need a magic weapon, even against ethereals.

I overlooked something though : the indep priest is now down to command 10, whereas the deacon remained at 25. Can explain why someone rose his price from 80 to 90. But I think he was overpriced in dom I, so letting him remain at 80 was just putting him again in balance.

Psitticine :
Will the province limit on blood harvest be published in the manual

The independent priest also got a cost hike to 50. Hierodules are thus still cheaper than indep priests (albeit with no command - but then, if you wanted a priest that could command you'd probably take a High Priest or Liz King anyway, because they can cast the morale boosting spells).

I don't know why cheap priests aren't as cheap as in Dom I. But at least it's across the board.