Poll: How much will the new bless effects affect your pretender design? - Page 6

st.patrik · #51 October 29th, 2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Endoperez:
Just how many spells need level 5/6/7 in given magic? I just ask this because you need level 6(in fire and blood) to get bless effects of Dom1, and I was wondering is there any other bonus you would get from pumping you pretender up to that level. The Living Element -spells seem to fill this gap, and there are propably others, but how many spells of these levels do we have?
It seems like we should have many low-level spells, some of a little higher level and some uber-killer spells, or just very good ones, that are costly and force you to go without something else, like a scale or two.
I think there are enough cheap spells now, but I have no idea about the medium-level spells. Are they weighted towards any particular path(s)? I'm mainly asking someone who has a spell manual...

You can check for yourself, if you want, by clicking on each school in the research screen.

licker · #52 October 29th, 2003, 05:42 PM

A possible solution is to limit the amount of points available for scales (and dominion) based on the pretender chosen. This is an extention of the pooled points, but its tied onto each pretender so that you can further try to balance the combatants vs. the mages.

Or you can just make the design costs of pretenders higher, or give some pretenders lesser (or greater) costs for certain scales. Or you can specify a minimum amount of magic that a pretender must take (again this is like the pooled points approach, but it allows a little greater flexibility in how to not underspend the points).

There are a lot of ways to address this problem, of course in MP if you have a good group you can all agree on limits or restrictions before hand, though I figure that takes alot of fun out of it (short of handicapping players).

Sammual · #53 October 29th, 2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:

quote:
Originally posted by apoger:
>This would be much less of an issue in games where more than half the provinces started off in players hands.

I must agree with Jasper on this. I don't like the whole one province, then expand dynamic. It heavily favors strategies that involve brutal fast expansion. I'd rather see players setting up to fight each other rather than "speed trampling unowned provinces".

It would be nice if IW could have an option to start with a "nation". Perhaps 7-10 provinces circling the capital. Force balance so all nations start will about the same gold/resources. Possibly have all starting provinces pre-searched as if the pretender had searched there.

I think this would be a good step forward for the game.

I agree. I'm not too fond of 'early rush with stupid god' tactics. Interesting idea also with the presearched provinces.

*Edit: perhaps not a bad idea with 'earmarked' (is this a swedish expression or is it viable in english as well) design points *

Earmarked is an English expression as well.

I would LOVE to see this added.

Sammual

Windreaper · #54 October 29th, 2003, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Mikko: Just curious, in what ways do you feel astral magic is more important.

1) Dispel becoming astral-only.
2) It has the only dome that can actually Last through a barrage of province-crippling spells (not including dome of corruption but it is partly astral, too). Every other dome either dissolves from successful hits or doesn't stop spells.
3) The transportation spells, even if nerfed, are still damn useful.
4) Acashic Record. Good luck finding enough astral sites with astral lvl 1 mages without this spell.
5) Astral just got plenty o' more power spells, Strands of Arcane Power, anyone? (ok I admit games are usually too short to get one off but there's always the danger as research is faster nowadays).
6) I hate seeing my expensive sacred units going down to massed Soul Slays. +1mr for astral lvl 4 actually seems like a rather good deal (can't recall the actual opposition number for magic resistance tests anymore [12?] but I recall every point above 10 helps a bunch).
7) The items, 'nuff said.

ywl · #55 October 29th, 2003, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Windreaper:

quote:
Originally posted by Kristoffer O:
Mikko: Just curious, in what ways do you feel astral magic is more important.

1) Dispel becoming astral-only.
2) It has the only dome that can actually Last through a barrage of province-crippling spells (not including dome of corruption but it is partly astral, too). Every other dome either dissolves from successful hits or doesn't stop spells.
3) The transportation spells, even if nerfed, are still damn useful.
4) Acashic Record. Good luck finding enough astral sites with astral lvl 1 mages without this spell.
5) Astral just got plenty o' more power spells, Strands of Arcane Power, anyone? (ok I admit games are usually too short to get one off but there's always the danger as research is faster nowadays).
6) I hate seeing my expensive sacred units going down to massed Soul Slays. +1mr for astral lvl 4 actually seems like a rather good deal (can't recall the actual opposition number for magic resistance tests anymore [12?] but I recall every point above 10 helps a bunch).
7) The items, 'nuff said.

1) Agree.
2) Not really. The "Dome of Arcane Warding" has time limit. Other domes are good enough. You can stack one dome over another - can we still do it in Dom2?
3) Yes. But it's not so overpowerful anymore. "Farey Trod" seems to be better than "Gateway" now. Also, Death gets the "Stygina Paths" for travelling (Thaumatury 8). The level 9 "Astral Travel" is good but well, it's level 9.
4) Why? How about "Astral Probing" - only Evocation 2? "Acashic Record" has a very high gem cost. It is only useful when you know there are more than one uncovered sites (not the case in Dom2?).
5) I think "Strands of Arcane Power" is the reason to avoid Astral? It seems to be just a massive "Mind Duel" and only one Astral mage will survive without a feeble mind. So, only an Astral King or Queen could afford casting it.
6) Useful. But give them Lesser Fear (Death 4), Regeneration (Nature 9), Protection +4 (Earth 4) are not bad deal neither.
7) What items? I find the most useful items in Earth and Nature paths - "Boot of the Behemoth", "Ring of Regeneration".

I find both Nature and Death are also hugely upgraded. I haven't had enough time check on Blood yet. Astral is good but I don't really find it overwhemingly so.

LordArioch · #56 October 29th, 2003, 07:18 PM

I think prot +4 is earth 9, otherwise you just get reinvigoration. And 4 in any other magic gives small boosts to the combat of sacred troops...but if they keep getting soul slayed that doesn't really matter anyway.

Saber Cherry · #57 October 29th, 2003, 07:21 PM

Having designed a few gods and struggled to get any worthwhile bless bonuses at all... hmm.

Going from 8 to 9 is insanely expensive, even for gods that start at level 2 in something. It makes strong blessings only accessible to nations that get free design points (Caelum, Jotun, Abyssia, Ermor), or cripple themselves. I think setting the big bonus at level 8 and starting the incremental bonus at level 3 would be more interesting... plus... it would make rainbow mages much more fun.

-Cherry

Saber Cherry · #58 October 29th, 2003, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordArioch:
I think prot +4 is earth 9, otherwise you just get reinvigoration. And 4 in any other magic gives small boosts to the combat of sacred troops...but if they keep getting soul slayed that doesn't really matter anyway.

Yeah, you're right. I kept thinking Earth game incremental protection, but it gives incremental reinvigoration. Not bad for sacred mages, though.

Teleolurian · #59 October 29th, 2003, 07:25 PM

I have, so far, found two games in which Bless effects were tremendously useful:

1. Ulm "Iron Faith" theme. Quality Black Templars buffed with Earth and Fire bonuses. I often mowed through strong independent armies with a quarter of the forces they had.

2. Jotunheim's "Nieflheim" theme. Those giants are *begging* for bless bonuses. In general, I like to delay creating a prophet until I can field an army of quality troops; changing the number of magic levels I take to accomodate certain bless effects is minor in relation to the bonuses, even if it's only *one* army that gets the effects.

ywl · #60 October 29th, 2003, 07:25 PM

Trying to stick to the subject title.

I've only tested intensively with Ulm and Jotun. Without too many holy units, Ulm can't benefit too much from the bless effect. The "Iron Faith" is a possibility but I don't find it impressive.

But for Jotun, it's significant. The blessed Jotun Woodmen are very powerful. Jotun Scout is sacred, stealthy and cheap enough (50 gp). Being commanders, you can recruit them at any castle. You could, in theory, use them an a stealthy army. You will need a stealthy priest but that can be done by prophetize you first Jotun Scout. And of course, if you used the Niefelheim theme, the Niefel giants would be even more terrifying while blessed.