Dead pretender poll

Kristoffer O · #1 October 5th, 2003, 11:03 PM

This is a spin off from the mind duel discussion. I begun to wonder what people do when their pretender dies and how often this occurs.

Saber Cherry · #2 October 5th, 2003, 11:23 PM

I'd like to mention that I never have, and never plan to, take Astral on my pretender in MP, because of Mind Duel.

licker · #3 October 6th, 2003, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
I'd like to mention that I never have, and never plan to, take Astral on my pretender in MP, because of Mind Duel.

True enough, at least not on a pretender you expect to take into alot of combats...

Though it would also depend somewhat on if you know what nations you are up against in advance

Jasper · #4 October 6th, 2003, 02:45 AM

I typically like to have Pretenders who can fight well in battle, and losing them due to random chance just happens. It's frustrating when it's due to random chance (e.g. a 30 gold mortal commander attacking my Medusa, not being stoned, actually hitting, and then doing 50+ damage in one swing, but it's not that bad because you had to account for the chance when creating your Pretender anyway.

Note that this poll is a bit self fulfilling: I've never _lost_ a Pretender to Mind Duel, as I rarely play with Astral on a Pretender, and when I do I try to have lots. I have killed Pretenders this way...

After trying Astral Pretenders, I've softened my anti Mind Duel stance, but the expense of at least Astral 5-6 and risk of Astral Pretenders repeatedly dying to Mind Duel still makes me avoid playing them.

Mind Duel is enough to make _many_ players use house rules to ban it's use, and IMHO pretty much hoses Marignon, and greatly adds to Pythium's power (errr, assuming Communion adds to Mind Duel, which I can't be sure about).

Pocus · #5 October 6th, 2003, 07:21 AM

knowing if mind duel is boosted or not by communion would be really important to know : it would be a major change to the strategy of all astral nations, especially whose which have level 1 or 2 astral mages, like C'tis, Marignon, Jotunheim.

I would much appreciate an answer on this. The weak astral nations would stop to cower when they encounter big bad Arco or Pythium.

Wick · #6 October 6th, 2003, 08:22 AM

I don't think Communion effects Magic Duel. That was the conclusion posted on csipgs and, while the test I just ran wasn't statistically significant, it didn't favor the Communion. It might have been significant if I had realized Magic Duel is an area spell!

My test was four sets with four Theurgs and eight Communicants on each side. The Theugs using Communion Master lost 8 of 16. The others lost 12 of 16. Oddly, the attacking teams lost 15 of 16, making me wonder if Magic Duel does still (v1.15) favor the caster? When hitting more then one target does it use the strongest target's magic?

Jasper · #7 October 6th, 2003, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wick:
I don't think Communion effects Magic Duel. That was the conclusion posted on csipgs and, while the test I just ran wasn't statistically significant, it didn't favor the Communion. It might have been significant if I had realized Magic Duel is an area spell!

My test was four sets with four Theurgs and eight Communicants on each side. The Theugs using Communion Master lost 8 of 16. The others lost 12 of 16. Oddly, the attacking teams lost 15 of 16, making me wonder if Magic Duel does still (v1.15) favor the caster? When hitting more then one target does it use the strongest target's magic?

I recall one of the devs (JK?) saying the attacker still got a bonus, like winning ties or something.

Also, I hadn't realized it was an area spell?! I'm not even really sure what that would mean...
Can a single instance of Magic Duel kick off three Duels?!

[ October 06, 2003, 08:58: Message edited by: Jasper ]

Wick · #8 October 6th, 2003, 10:03 AM

[/qb][/quote]I recall one of the devs (JK?) saying the attacker still got a bonus, like winning ties or something.

Also, I hadn't realized it was an area spell?! I'm not even really sure what that would mean...
Can a single instance of Magic Duel kick of three Duels?![/QB][/quote]

More then that if you can find six dwarfs with Astral magic!

Winning ties would leave it 21/15 in favor of the attacker which agrees tolerably with the lab results. It's a pretty significant advantage really.

johan osterman · #9 October 6th, 2003, 10:37 AM

Attacker wins ties.

PDF · #10 October 6th, 2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johan osterman:
Attacker wins ties.

Shouldn'it be fairer if defender wins in this case ?
If I've understood the mechanisms (Astral + 1D6), then currently a +1 advantage in Astral gives an attacker 72% to win, and even with -1 he still has 50% !