Heroic Races for SEV?

[Sol_Invictus]

Hi, my first post here, but I've greatly enjoyed SEIV and just wanted to add my 2cents to what I'd like to see in SEV

Heroic Races, as a trait.

See, it always seems that in Sci Fi settings, Humans usually never win by sheer force of numbers, or greater production capacity, superior tec, etc, etc. It is always something 'heroic' that wins the day. Like in Babylon 5, Starwars, Startrek, and so on and so forth.

I imagine it would be quite easy to code. For example, if I was playing the Terrans, and chose a hypothetical 1500pt trait called 'Heroic', then every time I enter into space combat - there would be maybe 1% chance for one of my ships to gain a 'heroic' crew.

It would have to be a significant bonus - something like 200-300% extra on all stats. From that moment on, your empire has a heroic captain that can - in combination with other heroic captains - fight a war against superior odds and maybe, just maybe win 20-30 turns into a war, you might have an entire fleet of Heroic captains, and you could then lead this group into an attack deep into enemy territory, doing considerable damage.

I don't think it would be an overpowering trait, since if your fleet is destroyed in the first few turns, you likely will not get to have more than one or two 'heroic' ships. But it would make other races think twice about attacking a 'heroic' race, since if the war drags on, you might face much stiffer resistance than anticipated.

Maybe even add special abilities if a ship that is *already* heroic gets the random bonus again - for example super stealth, super shields, whatever. Well, just an idea I think it would add some exciting flavor to the game anyways. To my knowledge, no other strategy game has ever done this, though of course we see it in fiction books/movies all the time.

[Renegade 13]

Its definitely an interesting idea. However, you wouldn't want to give them a 200-300% increase on all stats. That would make them virtually invulnerable. If you toned that down a little bit, it would make them a lot tougher, but not impossible, to beat which would create the effect you're looking for. All in all though, it sounds like a great idea.

[Kamog]

That is a wonderful idea.

How about making it so that a heroic crew cannot be converted to the enemy by using the crew insurrection intel attack. Also, there should be a limit to the number of heroic captains in the empire. In any movie or show, there aren't 100 heroic people, there's only 1 to 3 heroic captains, or possibly a single ship with many heroic crew. Heroic ships should get a bonus to maintenance, and be chosen Last to be destroyed if the empire runs out of resources to maintain their ships.

And how about heroic scientists / engineers on board the heroic ship, that have a small chance of inventing some super new weapon or technology in a desperate situation, to save the day?

[Sol_Invictus]

Thanks for the feedback! About the 2-300% yeah, I'm no expert on the mechanics of the game, but as long as it becomes possible for an 'out teched/out gunned' heroic captain to consistently defeat relatively superior enemy forces, it would have the desired effect.

If the 'Captain/Admiral' effect discussed in another thread gets implemented, it would be relatively easy to code in 'heroic leaders' that could then be transferred wherever they are most needed. Or maybe just have the heroic race gain leader 'experience points' at something like 5X the normal rate?

I like the chance of inventing a 'war winning' super weapon too, but that might be relatively more unbalancing. Still, I remember back in Wing Commander II when the humans were losing the war against the Kilrathi, they launch a fighter strike with a planet destroying weapon that takes out the Kilrathi homeworld That would definitely be something a heroic race might think of in SEV if it ever gets implemented.

It would be hard to balance, though... the idea would be that Heroic Races would be the underdogs in tech & industry perhaps, due to choosing this relatively unpredictable trait, but then they have at least a fighting chance of winning against superior odds by the actions of a few 'heroes'...

[Katchoo]

Hmmm... In place of the 200% or 300% bonus on stats, it could be better to give a high bonus to defense, and a minor bump to offense. Say, 50% bonus to Defense, and 10-25% bonus to offense. If the battle ends and the Ship is still alive it keeps the bonus. There should be a limit to how many Ships in a Empire could get this kind of bonus, and maybe even impose a happiness penalty if the Heroic Ship is lost in combat , with the penalty getting higher for every great deed the Heroic Ship completes. That way you could simulate the population mourning the loss of their Heros.

Cool idea though

[Baron Munchausen]

You know, this 'heroic' concept might be more signifigant if there were morale effects in SE combat. Currently, all AI forces are mindless kamikaze attackers. They keep on charging even as you mow them down. That's fine for the XiChung, but does it make sense for ALL races to behave this way? If we had actual fear and retreat when the battle was going badly, then 'heroic' could give a morale bonus.

[se5a]

Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
You know, this 'heroic' concept might be more signifigant if there were morale effects in SE combat. Currently, all AI forces are mindless kamikaze attackers. They keep on charging even as you mow them down. That's fine for the XiChung, but does it make sense for ALL races to behave this way? If we had actual fear and retreat when the battle was going badly, then 'heroic' could give a morale bonus.

I always thought it woudl be cool to have a morale bonus in the fights. think shogun total war. or medivil

it could be tricky to implement properly though.
retreet would have to come back to make it worth while.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Kamog:
...
And how about heroic scientists / engineers on board the heroic ship, that have a small chance of inventing some super new weapon or technology in a desperate situation, to save the day?

What about randomly giving the weapons a special ability for a shot / round / combat?

Such as shield/armor skipping, and such in addition to their normal effects?

Repairs during combat would be nice to see too, but you'd have to be using leaky shields/armor for it to be noticable.

[ July 04, 2004, 14:53: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]