OT: Galactic sterilisation

[dogscoff]

For a while this thread was going really well (giant radioactive roaches- perfect conversational material for a Rubber-Godzilla-fetishist like me) but now ppl are getting angry again and everyone else is settling back with popcorn. This thread is obviously destined to devolve into some kind of cagematch, therefore...

*dogscoff dons his "Dogscoff the Destroyer" mask and cape and leaps into the ring, smashes a chair over Shang's back, elbows Fyron in the face, bodyslams Puke and then turns to flex and chant to the crowd.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

*cheers and throws popcorn at Dogscoff*

[President_Elect_Shang]

Shang stumbles back to his feet and as dogscoff faces the crowed grabs his ears and bites a chunk off one. Spiting it out on the floor he turns to the now wreathing in agony dogscoff and says �Ops, sorry wrong sport, thought we were boxing�.

No I won�t let this slink into the slums of a fight; I am very sensitive right now considering my RL situation and in the name of peace will admit that I overreacted. Everyone has the right to a personal opinion, whether it is worded clearly or not, based on fact or fiction, or even if it is agreed to by others or opposed. This is not a reference to Puke�s or anyone�s posting on this thread, it is just a statement about my personal philosophy.

I am human and bound to fail from time-to-time at applying every aspect (morale, philosophical, etc) that I try to live by, and I have failed to do so here. The only thing I can say is that I overreacted and need to stand up (that chair sure did hurt) dust off and learn that this is a (considering my stress and emotional state) personal pet peeve. I am not excusing my postings, only a time machine could do that, I am just offering the best apology to everyone who reads this post that I can muster. What kind of a poor example have I just set?

[Loser]

I disagree with you, Atrocities. What Puke said was not only funny, but carries some truth to it.

I was going to go into more detail about my feeling for GIs, but it isn't coming out well. Actually, on proof it looks like I've tried again... this could lose me a pip or two...

It suffices to say that I live in a 'military town' with five separate bases including NORAD, which was mentioned earlier in the thread.

I see a lot of the enlisted kids, and they tend to be trouble. I'll be as friendly and humane to a stranger in the service as I would be to any other stranger, and some of these kids are decent company with a few really good people mixed in. But I'd rather they didn't date my female friends, the female friends of my friends, or any friend's sister. It consistently works out poorly.

I see a lot of retired military, and they are consistently good people, especially the marines. They make for good conversations and, when appropriate, tend to tip pretty well. I do wish we didn't have so many 'wash outs' around town (quite different than retirees), but if it wasn't them filling in the local can't-hold-down-a-job-caught-in-a-storm-of-self-destruction positions I suppose it would just be someone else.

I hear a lot about the decision-making process in the military, both from those in the service, those who have been in the service, and through the thousands of defense contractors around town, and Puke's description of their apparent intelligence is only slightly exaggerated.

Now, I have the highest respect for the Military and the men and women serving our country in such a matter. They are working in a way that benefits my own life in very real ways. But Puke's joke, which was funny, makes light of problems that some of us see on an almost day-to-day basis. Really, they put the corporate world to shame when it comes to clumsy decisions and Puke's explanation is as good as any, and made for a nice tie-back into the whole cockroach-thing.

Shang is .. I reread the thread during a proofread and it looks like Shang's issue is resolved. Cool, man.

I hear more complaints like those Puke is describing from military personnel than I hear from anywhere else. It's a common joke, not any blasphemy on Puke's part. On top of that Puke has done a good job of making clear not only his harmless intentions, but the close-to-home source of the joke.

Of course, it's also possible that you are referring to a post Puke made that has been removed. I'm talking about the ones I can see now.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Does the military have its flaws? Sure it does, more so than most any other company, organization, or anything else you compare it to. For one example it is the test bed for new practices, and the military is often used to try out concepts; such as how to integrate different races, how to handle homosexuals to name only two!

You don�t want any female friend to date a military soldier/sailor/airman etc. I don�t have enough fingers toes and you know what to count the number of times I have heard that one. It shocks and amazes me that if a �female friend� is jaded by a soldier it is a crime, but if an employee of lets say Microsoft does the same thing, hay that�s all good. I mean after all when she dated the employee it was her free choice, but she had to have been coerced into dating the soldier right? Can anyone say bigotry, or did you think that only applied when used in a different context?

You say that you have seen many enlisted kids that are trouble, sure there is many, hell I put one soldier back on the street when I was in, and I am proud to have of kicked him out. Please allow me to point out three things. First unlike a company if you place a PROPERLY (read that word twice) done complaint on a soldier (enlisted or officer) the complaint is followed up on even if it was submitted by a civilian. Secondly the military spends a great deal of money and effort to rehabilitee and reeducate (not as rough as that sounds) troubled individuals. This is the way of life in the military, after all we are speaking about the ONLY organization that will take a person regardless of financial status, most health issues, and education levels off the street and put them into a job that has guaranteed pay, 30 days paid vacation, and full free medical coverage for you and your dependents. But that is only the tip of the iceberg. Third those same troubled soldiers that you refer to will be discharged if it is warranted and where do you think they go to after leaving? Presto instant civilian. As a note I will add that most of those troubled individuals had problems when they came in, that�s why they joined, but as I said already it is the ONLY organization that will give most anyone a try.

Let me wrap this up by touching on the decision making process? It is a common joke in the armed forces that there is no such thing as Military Intelligence (MI is a job field) for good reason. But then you have to also consider that most decisions are made by an individual who has a noose about his/her neck. If you look closely you will see the noose has a label, and on that label is printed: PROPERTY OF THE US GOVERNMENT AND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ELECT THE OFFICIALS.

Oh yes one Last thing, yes, Puke did not mean harm and I did apologize for getting worked up, what more would you have me do? Build a time machine? Considering how close to home he hit (not just metaphorically speaking) I did not think it was funny, but as I said I apologize for getting out-of-hand there is no excuse for my actions.

[Atrocities]

We all have our differances of opinion. Poor timing aside Loser, perhaps they might have been humors, but not right now.

[Fyron]

Times of war are the best times to make fun of the military, actually. It is called freedom of speech. If it is not allowed in times of crisis, we do not really have it.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Taken from the paper "The Army Times" dated January 5th 2004:

Faces of the Fallen
U.S. troops who died since Jan. 1 [2003].

�More than 500 service members died in operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom in 2003, a group that represents the full, rich face of America�s diversity.�

You can pick up a copy at most major book stores, except that this is an old article (they come out every two weeks) so you may have to order it. On the other hand I can scan and email the pages for you but I can�t guarantee the quality of the color photos, that way you can look at the pictures and see the men and women, young and older, husbands and wives, daughters and sons, officers and enlisted that came home in body bags. Yes I agree with free speech! And I for one was laughing my proverbial buttocks off as I looked at these faces. Oh look that one was only 19 ha-ha-ha, and quick look on this page he was 54, I bet his grandchildren are laughing as hard as I am. Ha-ha-ha, but the kicker of them all, the one that really cracks me up so much that I pee my pants is this one 27 year old female Sergeant, know what�s so funny about that? She died in her husbands arms; get it because he sure did HA-HA-HA.

There is a very thick line between free speech and calling even one of these deceased a moron and not a single one of us here can separate the morons from the non-morons, I agree with Atrocities in that it might have been funny at another time.

Times of war are the best times to make fun of the military? I don�t agree with that, no I would say that times of war are the best times to make fun of the government that sent the military into combat. Government does not equal military (soldiers) but the two are too often freely swapped in speech, that is a side effect I feel of our society�s freedom.

[Loser]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
what more would you have me do?

Nothing more, I felt I made it clear that was settled in a manner of which I think well.

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
It shocks and amazes me that if a �female friend� is jaded by a soldier it is a crime, but if an employee of lets say Microsoft does the same thing, hay that�s all good. I mean after all when she dated the employee it was her free choice, but she had to have been coerced into dating the soldier right? Can anyone say bigotry, or did you think that only applied when used in a different context?

First of all I will admit to the accusation of bigotry. It is only appropriate, as I will not rescind the things I have said and the word fits.

Second, my carefully worded statement did not indicate that the fault lies solely with the GI. It may be as much a problem with the kind of girl that falls for the soldier. But on an emotional level who do you expect me to side with, beyond reason, led by my 'gut': the young lady I call a friend or have watched grow up, or the young man I don't know who has all the faults you might expect for a young man in the GI's situation? (Being away from everything you are familiar with and caught up in a new and different culture will change a person, and leave a few marks.) The conclusion is natural.

The other reason I worry about these relationships when I see them start is how consistently they end very, very poorly. I've deleted a paragraph here where I recounted anecdotes, it wasn't going to accomplish much. On an additionally note though, if its a local boy I can 'have a talk' with him. This isn't really possible with a GI, not even when taken more literally. The GI can retreat into military life and there's nothing I can do about the conflict.

I do know about the CO approach to civilian-vs.-GI problem solving. I have used this method to collect on debts, 'banish' problematic party regulars, and in one very special case I even used it to make a married fellow in the Army leave my girlfriend alone. Sometimes girls have trouble being final with their 'no', or maybe she just didn't want to be final, I don't know. Either way and whatever happened she never saw him again and had no idea what happened. So yes, this is a useful way of dealing with certain situations after they have happened.

And I know about the unmatched redemption from circumstances the military offers its recruits. I've lived with military presence all my life and I know why many GIs are the way they are. This is no reason for me to be any less careful. I have some good ideas why the decision making process works the way it does. This is no reason for me to find any less amusement at its expense. That's just what it is like for a civilian living in a military town, it is the nature of the situation.

And if there is anything in the matters discussed here that our military is doing wrong I don't have any delusions that I could do it better. I'm not delivering serious criticisms. I was defending a joke against a blanket sanction. Later I was trying to defend the fact that decisions made by those in the upper echelons of the military are worthy of some amount of mockery. It looks like one of my 'I have authority in this subject' points went a bit astray. I am sorry about that, I suppose, this thread hardly needs another derail.

Atrocities, I am glad we can disagree amiably enough.

Having refreshed once more before posting I see your latest, Shang. That's a bit over the line. I do regret if I have contributed to whatever got you that worked up. But here I am, putting-up the post I wrote before I read that Last bit of rhetoric anyway

[Atrocities]

I think that any one who has lost someone or has someone at risk in this conflict would find the comments in these Posts over the Last few days very dishearting. I sure do.

Lets shelve this debate for another time gentalmen, right now is NOT the time to be making fun or insulting the men and women of the armed forces.