Modding Questions - Shattered Realms

[clark]

Modding the User Interface (UI)and general mod questions:

How much, and how far can one mod the user interface for Space Empires IV?

Can, and how, would one mod the playing field- the sector maps that contain the planets, warps, asteroids, and storms and such? Instead of a 'space bit map', could an all green (to mimic fields and grasslands) be installed? Where would the refrences need to be changed in the txt files?

Can the tactical display- where all fighting occurs, be modded to display a green bitmap instead of the standard space bitmap? Which txt files control it?

Where, and how, does one change the little descriptive txt about planets (you know where it will say things like "planet has nice argon ice patches, small/machine world, etc") Where is this controled in the txt files?

Can the graphics for how planets and moons appear in the tactical display be changed? Instead of a planet, could you replace that graphic (in the tactical display) with a picture of a Castle? In what txt file is that done?

Now, these may seem weird, so let me explain my vision...

Space Empire IV becomes "Shattered Realms I"

Instead of Space wars, Fantasy Wars, as it were.

In order to properly understand this, you have to realize that Araon has given us an 'engine', and wemerely need to change the body to make any game we want. I think most people understand this, so thus, my questions to you.

What I was thinking was that if the UI can be modded, then all of this would be rather seamless, and we all can end up with a brand new spanking game... with the same 'feel' as Space Empires, but in a new genre.

So, instead of Gas, Rock, and Ice Planets, we have Ethreal Plane(Gas), Man's (or whatever) plane (rock), and Underworld plane (ice).

Instead of Carbon Dioxide, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Methane or None atmosphere's, we have Ancient Forests (carbon dioxide), Plains or Gardens (Oxygen), Fire pits (Hydrogen), Swamps (Methane), and Caverns or Crypts (None).

Instead of Ships, we have Hero's and Monsters (these form the bodies of the creatures we create to battle for us). So an escort becomes the base "humaniod" hero. The destroyer becomes a bigger body form for creatures, and on and on...

Life support, crew quarters, and Bridge become: Body (life support), Soul (crew quarters), and Mind (bridge). The computer control becomes a 'magical enchant' that can replace the previous functions...

Mines become 'booby traps'. Sats become 'guard towers', Drones become 'golems' (or whatever).

Troops become 'seige troops' to take castles and such. Fighters become griffins, pegasus, witches, flying monkies... you get the idea.

Weapon Platforms become ballista (giant crossbow), catapaults, or whatever.

Warp points become passages between the lands of the "Shattered Realms", or teleport sites, or whatever...

Stars become centers of majic (which later can be built upon to make giant towers, ala ringworld)

Minerals become Iron, Organics become foodstuff, and Radioactives become Majic.

Ruins lead to arcane majics unknown to your peoples.

Asteroids become little hills or forests that can be mined, or built into city centers (with the right spell).

Storms become acid fogs, fogs of invisibility, fogs of confusion, etc.

Black Holes become Chaos Chasms that suck everything in.

Quantum Reactor becomes "horn of Plenty". Engines become 'wings or speed'. Emissive armor becomes Mithril armor, or whatever.

Instead of alien races, we of course have Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Hobbits (they never venture far from the shire!...netural), Dark Lords, Undead, Man, and on and on and on...

Everything in the SE4 universe can easily translate into something 'magical'. In order to complete this idea though, it is neccessary to mod the UI to give it more of that 'fantasy' feel, as opposed to just the space theme.

All of these changes are really cosmetic, so there wouldn't neccessarily need to be any type of AI changes or tweaks. This means that this could hit the ground running and have the TDM and other AI mods work right away.

Replies and thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

[General Woundwort]

Somebody actually did start something along these lines about 6 months ago. I don't recall how far he got, or where the files got posted... wait a second, here it is...

Mod: Fantasy Mod maintained by Spoon Mod Version: beta 0.1.0 SE4 Version: 1.84

Listed in...

http://www.malfador.com/se4mods.html

[DavidG]

everything you want can be done I think. All the data files are in the /data folder.

I'd suggest you check out Fyrons modding tutorial. (i'm sure he'll be by shortly to give you a link )

[clark]

Thanks for the link!

I have been looking through the data files for this Mod, and it seems to be in the direction I am thinking (I am also answering several of my own questions now!).

Yet this mod is still a 'space setting'. I want to go a step further and make it fantasty based, which will require changes to the tactical, strategic, and UI display.

I also want to keep this as closely modeled to Space Empire IV as possible, as to avoid any AI issues (the mod that you linked to has no Ai support). I figure, if a base can be established, then people can take the extra steps to mod further- to create different variants, but first they need a strong foundation.

Since most of us cut our teeth on the vanilla SEIV, we all understand it, and we all have basic expectations on how it shoulod work. I don't want to start messing with any of that. First, the most basic cosmetic changes- so we keep all the basic ideas of SEIV, but translate them into a Fantasy setting. Then, afterwards, we go about tweaking it to our hearts content- but for this, just plain vanilla.

What that means is we keep concepts of Planets, but make them Towns- different types of planets are directly translated into different planes of exsistence- different atmospheres are directly translated into different 'environments'. The mod you linked to went along some of these ideas, but it seems to have neglected atmosphere types (just using three different types of planets).

I don't really want to create new weapons and such, just change the names first- so anti proton beams become 'arrows', phased poloran becomes 'magic arrow'. etc.

In this way, we will have working AI's from the get go (a major portion of any Mod is getting the AI to work!)

The mod you mentioned also dosen't change the tactical or strategic display fields... which I would like to give it the realistic feel of fantasy (oxymoron? )

Any other ideas of links?

[geoschmo]

Some stuff in the interface you can't change. The game calls uncolonized planets "planets" and colonized planets "colonies" in several places. You can change the graphics and give them different names, and call them towns in the text of their description, but the game screens are still going to call them planets, colonies, asteroids, and stars.

Also, planets have type, atmosphere, conditions, and value. You can't change those. You can pretend they are something else, but the planet display is going to read type, atmosphere, conditions, value.

Most of the graphics for the buttons and lines for the UI can be changed. But unfortunatly not all of them can. This can lead to some akward looking results when attempting a 100% "skin" of the game.

You can change the vehicle size names to Hero and monster or whatever, but the game will still call them "ships" as a group.

Basically most of what you want to do can be done. But you and you players are going to have to be willing to allow for some things and make mental equations while playing. If that's not a problem for you then this should be ok.

[ November 03, 2003, 16:49: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by clark:


Yet this mod is still a 'space setting'. I want to go a step further and make it fantasty based, which will require changes to the tactical, strategic, and UI display.

Actually, that's just an older Version, I haven't updated it in a while, but the UI has changed and the background is indeed grass (thanks to fyron for the bmp), planets are caves, forests, and swamps, etc. Also changed the UI to be green, to match the grass, but only so much of that is moddable.

Right now I'm in the process of putting in art for all the components, after that, I'll post a new Version (in a week or two) and you can take whatever you want from there.

Originally posted by clark:

The mod you linked to went along some of these ideas, but it seems to have neglected atmosphere types (just using three different types of planets).

Actually the atmosphere are still there, but they are changed to "alignments"...

Your approach (to essentially rename tech rather than do a complete overhaul) is a great idea - and you are right, that will make the ai easier to handle. What I'm going to have to do is go along the "Space Monster" vein of DevNull, and just give the ai it's own research path, since so much of the design changes "break" the way the ai works.

The biggest problem I ran into art-wise is with the shipsets. It's fairly easy (albiet time comsuming) to change the art for componets and worlds, but getting fantasy-based shipssets to look good has been a problem. I decided to take the easy way out and just use symbols for ships rather that pictures.

And like I said, feel free to use any of the art I post, when I post it. All the components are from Magic: The Gathering art, so it is looking pretty spiffy.

-Spoon

[spoon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:


Most of the graphics for the buttons and lines for the UI can be changed. But unfortunatly not all of them can. This can lead to some akward looking results when attempting a 100% "skin" of the game.

This turned out to be not as bad as I thought it would be...

Originally posted by geoschmo:
But you and you players are going to have to be willing to allow for some things and make mental equations while playing.

Very true!

[clark]

Cool, thanks for the replies! Sorry Spoon, you're right, there are different atmosphere types, I didn't see them at first.

Question: I'm looking through the SectType.txt files and I notice that under the "Allowable Values for Physical Type:" the following atre listed: None, Planet, Asteroids, Storm, Sun, Warp Point, Destroyed Star, Comet

Now, what happens if I give it a "None" physical type, but then add in lines defining the planet?

It looks like this:

Physical Type := Planet (Change to NONE?)
Picture Num := 0
Description := Huge Forest near an abundance of surface minerals.
Planet Size := Huge
Planet Physical Type := Gas Giant
Planet Atmosphere := Carbon Dioxide

Okay, now I realize I need to keep the Carbon Dioxide refrence, and the Gas Giant refrence in order to define the planet- but what happens if I do that, but give it a physical type of None?

I am trying to think of ways to avoid the 'planet' naming on uncolonized spots. Perhaps this may be a way to cheat it.

And yes, I plan on begging, borrowing, and stealing any manner of art out there since i have zero ability. I have DO, so I plan on using alot of the bitmaps there. Well done Spoon!

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by clark:

Now, what happens if I give it a "None" physical type, but then add in lines defining the planet?

You get errors. Despite what the header says None is not a valid physical type.

[Suicide Junkie]

The physical type defines what lines come after it... for example, stars don't have atmospheres or surface types, they have colours and luminosities...

If you want it to have the properties of a planet, the type has to be planet.