Culture Bonus ????

[JLS]

If we agree that Combat is a great bonus. Maintenance in my mind is great if not the greatest over all bonuses (You can add components to ships to fight better). SY rate is also powerful. Repair is not that worthy of a Bonus (3 bay repair station 9+5 for Planet SY=13 with a bonus of 5, what do I get? or a loss of -2, what really have I lost? )

Do you guys think? Do I have ship yard and Happiness correct. What about repair am I in left field? Take a look and reassign any Values that choose.

Culture Bonus values : Here is what I assigned for a value.

Production := 16
Research := 16
Intelligence := 8
Trade := 8
Space Combat := 24
Ground Combat := 4
Happiness := 16
Maintenance := 32
SY Rate := 24
Repair := 4

--------------------------Example----------------------------

Also do you think a negative penalty should be equal that of a positive Bonus.

Name := Merchants = PLUS 79
Description := Merchants have directed themselves towards economic pursuits. They excel at trade and deep space supply.
Production := 0
Research := -2 (-32)
Intelligence := -2 (-16)
Trade := 5 (+40)
Space Combat := -2 (-48)
Ground Combat := -5 (-25)
Happiness := 0
Maintenance := 5 (+160)
SY Rate := 0
Repair := 0

Name := Workers = PLUS 80
Description := A culture which values hard work above all else. Industry is given precedence above all other tasks.
Production := 5 (+80)
Research := 0
Intelligence := 0
Trade := 0
Space Combat := 0
Ground Combat := 0
Happiness := 0
Maintenance := 0
SY Rate := 0
Repair := 0

What values would you place

[ February 09, 2003, 15:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Tenryu]

Just my 1 cents worth;
Any merchant worth his salt is an absolute and total "idea" thief and knows information is a valuable "trade good". It might make sense to give them a bonus to cunning.

But then, I'm not quiet sure what you are trying to do, LOL! Sorry

[ February 09, 2003, 15:31: Message edited by: Tenryu ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by JLS:

What values would you place

Great stuff. I think you are right on, though I would make these minor adjustments:

Space Combat := 32 (up from 24)
Happiness := 8 (down from 16)

Space combat raised because it is so effective in the min/max game.
Happiness down - easy to get other bonuses elsewhere.
You could also likely cut ground combat and repair to 2...

Are you going to go through and apply these to all the culture types? Seems like the kind of thing a lot of modders would likely use (in mods that address balance, anyway...)

-spoon

[JLS]

[quote]Originally posted by spoon:

Originally posted by JLS:
[qb]
Are you going to go through and apply these to all the culture types? Seems like the kind of thing a lot of modders would likely use (in mods that address balance, anyway...)

-spoon

On some of the mods I see, the values are from one relative extream to the other with some of the culture Types

[ February 09, 2003, 17:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

[PvK]

1) Whatever values you choose for each ability modifier, should be in line with the point costs for directly improving those abilities.

2) There is no way to mod a point value for culture settings, unless you can get your players to understand that they need to alter their total expenditures based on the culture they choose.

3) Consider that you can balance bonuses to desirable abilities by combining them with negatives to other desirable abilities, and hopefully ones that make sense for the culture described.

4) Realize that some abilities tend to me maxed or minimized, and some don't, and realize cultures can be used to extend the limits, and/or the threshold point, and adjust costs appropriately.

5) See Proportions mod (and soon, PvK Balance Mod) for an example of adjusting all of the cultures so that they provide a net zero advantage, compared to buying the same abilities directly.

PvK

[JLS]

I see what you mean, I think

[ February 09, 2003, 18:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[spoon]

JLS, in other words...

Originally posted by PvK:
1) Whatever values you choose for each ability modifier, should be in line with the point costs for directly improving those abilities.

It might be better to use the point values from the characteristic point-buy system to balance the culture traits. Of course, that involves balancing Characteristics system first...

2) There is no way to mod a point value for culture settings, unless you can get your players to understand that they need to alter their total expenditures based on the culture they choose.

I think he's just making sure you realize that you can't let each player customize his own culture (well, really, you can, but they would have to submit their culture design using the point buy system you created, and have it modded into the game-creators cultures.txt file. (Though that strikes me as a very bad idea, unless it is for a strictly Role-Playing game)).

3) Consider that you can balance bonuses to desirable abilities by combining them with negatives to other desirable abilities, and hopefully ones that make sense for the culture described.

Culture types with both advantages and disadvantages are more interesting. Though I think the basic ones (Scientists, Workers, etc) still have their place.

4) Realize that some abilities tend to me maxed or minimized, and some don't, and realize cultures can be used to extend the limits, and/or the threshold point, and adjust costs appropriately.

This is one of the reasons SpaceCombat should cost a lot - people use them to extend beyond the normal characteristic maximums. With Maint Reduction, people use Merchant to get past the very expensive threshold value.

5) See Proportions mod (and soon, PvK Balance Mod) for an example of adjusting all of the cultures so that they provide a net zero advantage, compared to buying the same abilities directly.

PvK's balancing is great, steal his examples where you can... As to the "net zero advantage", I'm not sure if he means he thinks cultures should add no advantage overall, or if they should all be balanced against each other. I like having cultures give you a small boost, rather than a net zero gain. (like around 500 characteristic points).

-spoon

[ February 09, 2003, 19:35: Message edited by: spoon ]

[Fyron]

For my Adamant Mod (still a work in progress), I have made many alterations to try and balance racial characteristics and cultures. It is in my sig if you wish to check it out.

[PvK]

Since choosing a culture is hard-coded to have no point cost, and can't be modded to do so, and since there is a culture with no modifiers, it makes sense (unless you remove the no-effect culture choice) to balance all the cultures to be worth a net total of zero points. They will still be effective choices when trying to maximize certain traits, but if balanced to zero, will have balancing drawbacks.

PvK

[Fyron]

If they are all balanced to the same net point cost, then they will end up balanced.