Combat in systems with sight obscuration

[Q]

In systems with sight obscuration a combat will only occur if you have sensors to see the enemy and enter a sector. No combat will occur if the enemy enters the sector where you are present (unless he himself has sufficient sensors).
There are situations where this is o.K. but if you have defences on a warp point you would like to combat the entering enemy (as a surprise to him!). The only way you can do this is to attack when its your turn (if the enemy is still present and has not already warped) and then the enemy gets the first shot! Not very reasonable in my opinion.
On the other hand if I enter a sector where he is present the combat will always occur, even if he does not see me and I would like to sneak past him e.g. with a colony ship. In this situation my sensor ability becomes a disadvantage!

[Baron Munchausen]

Yep, this is a problem with the overly-simple detection system for SE IV. If the other guy can't see YOU, why should you have to attack to move by him? For that matter, why should he see you even if you DO attack? Shouldn't you be able to just bLast his ships without any return fire?

Hopefully these problems will be fixed in SE V.

[Slick]

Originally posted by Q:
In systems with sight obscuration a combat will only occur if you have sensors to see the enemy and enter a sector. No combat will occur if the enemy enters the sector where you are present (unless he himself has sufficient sensors).
There are situations where this is o.K. but if you have defences on a warp point you would like to combat the entering enemy (as a surprise to him!). The only way you can do this is to attack when its your turn (if the enemy is still present and has not already warped) and then the enemy gets the first shot! Not very reasonable in my opinion.
On the other hand if I enter a sector where he is present the combat will always occur, even if he does not see me and I would like to sneak past him e.g. with a colony ship. In this situation my sensor ability becomes a disadvantage!

Great info. *Click* Snapshot taken for the Newbie FAQ.

Slick.

[Suicide Junkie]

This could probably be done with a three-way "do you want to attack" message box.

1) "No"
2) "Decloak and Attack"
3) "Sneak in"

If you choose #2, combat will always occur, and you will start a safe distance away as in normal combat.
If you choose #3, and the enemy has sufficient sensors to spot your ships, they will get to open fire at point blank range as if it were a warppoint battle. Perhaps make this dependent on the defender ship's strategies (ramming, point blank ships start at 1 range, while max range ships start at range 6-8, and "don't get hurt"ers start in the corners)
If you choose #3 and the enemy can't see you, both fleets end up in the same sector, with no fighting.

For simultaneous games, the game could give you the option when you give the attack order.

For that matter, why should he see you even if you DO attack? Shouldn't you be able to just bLast his ships without any return fire?

Well, you have the fairly common SF "can't fire while cloaked" rule.

[Desdinova]

actually if neither party has sufficient sensors to see thru the sight obscuring of the storm or nebulae then no combat should occur. if the ai has sufficient sensors then it should be able to attack the human without the human being able to defend or maybe defend with huge minuses (like only a 1% chance to hit [golden bb]). vice versa if other way around.

too bad that cloaking devices dont work in the combat screen. that could make for some nasty surprise attacks. question: can you fleet cloaked and uncloaked ships together and will the enemy see only the (helpless unarmed) uncloaked ships while the cloaked ships act as hidden guards? assuming the enemy does NOT have sufficeint ability to see that level of cloaking.

[ April 09, 2003, 02:13: Message edited by: desdinova ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Yes. Once combat occurs, all ships in the sector will join the battle.

Have I ever told you about the time I sent one Dreadnought in to finish off a minefield-damaged Phong DN?

Turns out there wasn't just one
In fact, once combat started, I discovered the horrible truth, and I had to face down 11 enemy dreads, only one of which had lost its stealth ability.

After much heroic struggle, and the disabling of most of the enemy force, my ship went and ran right out of supplies. Shields, engines, everything shut down, and the remaining Phong ships lay down the beatings from just out of weapons range.
Just as the Last piece of armor cracked from the High Energy Magnifier beams, turn 30 hit, and a pair of battlecruisers arrived to save the day; they drew off the enemy fire, and finished off the crippled enemy dreads.

[ April 09, 2003, 02:42: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]