Israeli Assault Boats

[shahadi]

OOB4 Unit 246 UC 42 Israel.

I could not find the unit in a formation from the Editor purchase screen. So, I popped over to Australia and bought Zodiac boats.

But, I noticed in Mobhack a unit 246 UC 42, an Assault Boat. However, in the Database Checking Utility, there are no formations using UC 42 in the OOB15. Nor, in OOB4.

I suspect this is intentional, that UC 42 is not listed within a formation.

My workaround, in Scenhack changed the Zodiac boats for Assaualt boats using OOB4, OOB Index 246, Nation Israel, id tag 4. From the Leaders screen subbed Israeli names.

I'm good to good right?

[Mobhack]

The assault boat is in a fixed position in the OOB because the code that gives rubber rafts to units in a river crossing scenario uses that for generating rubber rafts which are carried by infantry.

It has no formation since it is unnecessary - they are created on the fly in the river crossing scenario, for the assault forces infantry. it auto-magically gets the rifle (slot 1 weapon) as "armament" with some token ammo from its infantry passenger, when loaded.

(Just like the crew template is there for the code's use in spawning same, and the HQ ditto. There is no crew formation since there is no need for it, nor is there an HQ formation since A0 is auto-generated).

if an OOB has other types of small boat then those are mainly there for scenario designers.

In the beach assault, the code automatically buys landing barges (those are also auto-generated as the cargo of barge carriers in the beach assault scenario) and in some cases, a few heavy amphibians for infantry use.

So - if you are creating a river crossing scenario, and you have properly set the variable as described in the Game Guide - your infantry have their own personal assault boat.

If you are creating a beach assault, and have set the variables right before purchase, the code will generate what it thinks is the appropriate transport craft.

In both cases, the AI knows how to handle those situations, if it is the attacker. Otherwise, the AI knows not how to use floaters.

Why would you want the rubber rafts in any situation other than what is provided for by the regular procedures?. they are special items, used internally by the code, not there for regular use by scenario designers.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Why would you want the rubber rafts in any situation other than what is provided for by the regular procedures?. they are special items, used internally by the code, not there for regular use by scenario designers.

1. The beach and river crossing flags when set were giving me all infantry units carrying inflatable rafts. I only needed a small detachment with boats.

2. So, following advice I deactivated beach and river crossing. Now I can have my small detachment with boats and regular infantry (without boats).

3. When a unit carrys an inflatable raft, anytime he enters or re-enters shallow water the raft activates. I do not want this behavior, so I need external boats, raider, zodiac, or rigid raider.

4. Strange. In the operation a Milan III team did not fire on the inflatable rafts, while firing on the raiders (in another iteration). So, I thought to purchase the rafts, however due to item 3 above, and the speed of the rigid raider, I choose the latter over the former.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

4. Strange. In the operation a Milan III team did not fire on the inflatable rafts, while firing on the raiders (in another iteration). So, I thought to purchase the rafts, however due to item 3 above, and the speed of the rigid raider, I choose the latter over the former.

Not really.
Inflatable rafts/assault boats have no armor rating (0), rigid raiders/Zodiac H-733's do (1).

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Not really.
Inflatable rafts/assault boats have no armor rating (0), rigid raiders/Zodiac H-733's do (1).

Yes strange, indeed. There are two raiders, the rigid and raider. The raider is as the assault boat unit 246 in: speed, carry, and amor rating. And, yes the stupid Milan team wasted a missile on a rubber raft.

See the Australians, Obat15, unit 342 and the zodiac boat unit 343, no armor.

So, yeah strange, at least thus far.

Anyway, I made a decision, my guys will ride in the rigid raiders, more appropriate to boot.

Thanks for commenting.

[shahadi]

That Milan III team wasting a missile on a rubber raft continues to fester. Now, after setting armor front max and min settings above the values of my rigid raiders, that Milan III team continues to send a missiles at the rigid raider (armor rating 1 all around.)

The armor front max and min filters for the Milan III team are 255 and 9 respectively.

As a test I inserted a Mag'ach 7A with the Milan III killing the tank then sending a missile down the throat of a rigid raider.

Again, I do not want the Milan III to fire on the rigid raider.

Any suggestions.

[Mobhack]

None of which are boats.

The AI does its own thing on water missions, which is fine since those are rare as scenarios.

Many things could be contributing to the AI deciding to opfire at some boat but not another - is it full of passengers, is it moving close to an objective etc. Or it may well do one thing for one unit class but not for another.

[Imp]

Maybe you have found a bug setting armpr engagement range to zero, it should not engage anything but has a minimum fire range of 2. Might be a problem with the unit class though I dont rember my ATGMs firing at barges unless I set them to.

I would set it up as follows, standard saved setup, might adjust lower armor range for the opponent I am expecting.

255
9
35 - Milan range 40 depending on terrain but 35 or so a bit more accurate.
4 - if you let the enemy get that close may as well open up its going to get detected.
4 - as above might vary +_ 1
35 - I want it to fire at ATGM vehicles even if it misses a reaction shot could spoil its shot & save the target.

Unless they are included in formations I always buy units in the following order in defrence to game engine mechanics, prefer that than having formations with scouts etc as second unit.
Having similar units together makes setting filters simple do the formation & also makes finding simple, all AAA together makes cycle through who has a target using P & N keys fast.
Pet peeve finding FOOs in scenerios.

FOOs just for ease of finding could buy last
Squads Foot or truck
Squads Mech
If not part of company
Support weapons MGs etc
Scouts
Any additional support transport vehicles.

Tanks worst first if multiple types normaly so light and armored cars first, occasionaly if using for scouting might buy after main tanks.
ATGMs foot & vehicle
AAA normaly none radar first including MANPADs

Artillery
SEAD
Other air
Can buy after FOOs always artillery first in case you want to suppress AAA, just find it convineint as get arty percentage.

Cross attach to the respective companies and your good to go..
The game reaction fires top to bottom so setting up this way units you want to stay relayivly quite like scouts ATGMs only fire after the other units.

So vs a tank for example if a valid target firing order is
Squads
APCs
Scouts
Tanks
ATGM
AAA gun
Helicopters

Might end up wasting a bit of ammo with things like APCs firing AP with no hope but causes suppresion just in case your tank or ATGM misses giving them a better chance of surviving for a second shot.

Its purely taking advantage of the game mechanics but means you dont need to set up much.

HQ F00 range to 4 or so
Foo vehicle range reduced.
ATGM op filter
Tanks sometimes op filter.

This set up especialy if you have IFVs tanks only fire if they havent dealt with Enemy APCs & infantry so they dont get overly distracted anyway.
There are a few tanks that need micro mamaging & I would buy after ATGMs as there ammo load is critical.
Say 20 AP rounds that need point blank, rear shot or worse but have 3 effective HEAT rounds & mediocre targeting abilities.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Imp

Maybe you have found a bug setting armpr engagement range to zero, it should not engage anything but has a minimum fire range of 2. Might be a problem with the unit class though I dont rember my ATGMs firing at barges unless I set them to.

I would set it up as follows, standard saved setup, might adjust lower armor range for the opponent I am expecting.

255
9
35 - Milan range 40 depending on terrain but 35 or so a bit more accurate.
4 - if you let the enemy get that close may as well open up its going to get detected.
4 - as above might vary +_ 1
35 - I want it to fire at ATGM vehicles even if it misses a reaction shot could spoil its shot & save the target.

Unless they are included in formations I always buy units in the following order in defrence to game engine mechanics, prefer that than having formations with scouts etc as second unit.
Having similar units together makes setting filters simple do the formation & also makes finding simple, all AAA together makes cycle through who has a target using P & N keys fast.
Pet peeve finding FOOs in scenerios.

FOOs just for ease of finding could buy last
Squads Foot or truck
Squads Mech
If not part of company
Support weapons MGs etc
Scouts
Any additional support transport vehicles.

Tanks worst first if multiple types normaly so light and armored cars first, occasionaly if using for scouting might buy after main tanks.
ATGMs foot & vehicle
AAA normaly none radar first including MANPADs

Artillery
SEAD
Other air
Can buy after FOOs always artillery first in case you want to suppress AAA, just find it convineint as get arty percentage.

Cross attach to the respective companies and your good to go..
The game reaction fires top to bottom so setting up this way units you want to stay relayivly quite like scouts ATGMs only fire after the other units.

So vs a tank for example if a valid target firing order is
Squads
APCs
Scouts
Tanks
ATGM
AAA gun
Helicopters

Might end up wasting a bit of ammo with things like APCs firing AP with no hope but causes suppresion just in case your tank or ATGM misses giving them a better chance of surviving for a second shot.

Its purely taking advantage of the game mechanics but means you dont need to set up much.

HQ F00 range to 4 or so
Foo vehicle range reduced.
ATGM op filter
Tanks sometimes op filter.

This set up especialy if you have IFVs tanks only fire if they havent dealt with Enemy APCs & infantry so they dont get overly distracted anyway.
There are a few tanks that need micro mamaging & I would buy after ATGMs as there ammo load is critical.
Say 20 AP rounds that need point blank, rear shot or worse but have 3 effective HEAT rounds & mediocre targeting abilities.

We can only buy formations not units, right? Therefore, the designer has to make formations in Mobhack of only one unit. Now, when we want to cross attach say a Scout to a company formation, we can do so by a unit rather than a formation that may include at least two or three scout units.

I run into this problem with setting up patrols. If I set up a patrol by normal formation found in Mobhack, I have maybe three scout units trying to make the patrol waypoints, does not work. So, I go back into Mobhack to create single unit formations.

Otherwise, I think I got it. Great info worth taking notes.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Imp

I would set it up as follows, standard saved setup, might adjust lower armor range for the opponent I am expecting.

255
9
35 - Milan range 40 depending on terrain but 35 or so a bit more accurate.
4 - if you let the enemy get that close may as well open up its going to get detected.
4 - as above might vary +_ 1
35 - I want it to fire at ATGM vehicles even if it misses a reaction shot could spoil its shot & save the target.

The Milan team killed the Mag'ach tank on the second shot. On the next turn it fired a missile down the gut of one of the empty rigid raiders. I filtered that Milan team according to Imp's suggestion quoted above. SMH.

The beach and river assault flags are both off.