British Army and active armour protection

[IronDuke99]

The British Army is looking at assorted active armour protection systems including passive and active systems.

First up is the German MUSS system where sensors detect a threat and activate pyrotechnic or electronic countermeasures. MUSS is popular because it does not add much in weight terms.

Sources are suggesting 2018 as a date that the system may be fitted to Challenger II MBT's, with other armoured vehicles following...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...r-armed-forces

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSS_(countermeasure)

[DRG]

Just curious......how do you think that differs from what we already have in the game unit 28? VIRSS and CIWS are just convenient , short general descriptions for 1/ a system that occludes the target vehicle and 2/ one that actively disables incoming missiles( in the code it's called ARENA but CIWS fits better as four letters..... MUSS is 1/ and that's what we already have

Following the detection of an ATGM, the system can automatically launch the active countermeasures. These are located in smoke grenade dischargers, which can be rotated into the direction of the missiles. Unlike conventional smoke grenades, the MUSS countermeasures create a cloud of multi-spectral smoke, that blocks IR, UV and laser beams. This is believed to be an effective way of disabling fire-and-forget missiles

[IronDuke99]

Don't know so much about the game mechanics, but in reality, it is the automatic detection of a ATGM, or a laser painting the vehicle, and near instant automatic counter measures that are the real change.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by IronDuke99

Don't know so much about the game mechanics, but in reality, it is the automatic detection of a ATGM, or a laser painting the vehicle, and near instant automatic counter measures that are the real change.

I am not confident the systems rely on the emissions of counter measures as automatic from a paint. I seem to recall the system arms with a paint, goes to active searching, and deploys counter measures upon detection of missile in flight.

Else, the ruse would be to paint the tank, not launch, let it deploy counter measures until they are expended, then paint and launch.

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[Suhiir]

I've always thought the countermeasures systems were more effective on the drawing board (and in WinSPMBT) then they would be in real life in a mid to large scale battle. Sure when you're using only a few tanks they can probably spot incoming ATGMs fairly frequently. But try something like the Yom Kippur War where you have dozens of launchers firing at a massed armor assault I seriously doubt the countermeasures will be as effective. "Is that missile aimed at me?"

[IronDuke99]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

I've always thought the countermeasures systems were more effective on the drawing board (and in WinSPMBT) then they would be in real life in a mid to large scale battle. Sure when you're using only a few tanks they can probably spot incoming ATGMs fairly frequently. But try something like the Yom Kippur War where you have dozens of launchers firing at a massed armor assault I seriously doubt the countermeasures will be as effective. "Is that missile aimed at me?"

I see your point but if you have a large number of tanks, and/or other AFV's, fitted with ATGM countermeasures will this not serve to also confuse the missiles?

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by IronDuke99

I see your point but if you have a large number of tanks, and/or other AFV's, fitted with ATGM countermeasures will this not serve to also confuse the missiles?

Yes. Emphatically hell yes. We see it in our too. Two tanks sharing a hex will both benefit from the VIRSS counter measures deployed by the targeted tank. Furthermore, if you target the second tank, your missile hit chance drops significantly. Don't waste the second shot.

Oh my goodness, I got the Flamingos, "I only have eyes for you" playing in the other room. BYE!

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[Suhiir]

You pretty much have to "waste shots" until the countermeasures run out

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

You pretty much have to "waste shots" until the countermeasures run out

What I mean by wasted shot is to fire at targeted tank again after he deployed counter measures in the same turn or the one thereafter.

It is better to let the VIRSS smoke clear then fire again in the third successive turn (I believe it is two turns for the smoke to clear).

To do otherwise is wasting shots.

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[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by shahadi

What I mean by wasted shot is to fire at targeted tank again after he deployed counter measures in the same turn or the one thereafter.

It is better to let the VIRSS smoke clear then fire again in the third successive turn (I believe it is two turns for the smoke to clear).

To do otherwise is wasting shots.

My understanding is that VIRSS smoke in the game does NOT protect past the actual shot it is used for and doesn't effect other units in the same hex (other than "normal" smoke.