Saukopf

[DRG]

Anyone have GOOD information as to when the the StuH 42 started being delivered with the Saukopf mantle ?

Don

[Pibwl]

Unfortunately, Jentz in Panzer Tracts fails in giving a date of peculiar improvements, but from captions of photos it may be concluded, that in fall of 1943 Alkett Stugs already had it (and Alkett StuH received improvements at the same time).

BTW: Jentz claims, that it was actually named Topfblende (pot mantlet), and Saukopf was invented in a postwar literature

[DRG]

It seems like everyone who reads from the Bible of Jentz and worships at the church of Jentz answers that question using the same quote and it's almost common enough to google so I'll give you someone elses answer to the same Jentz quote that I discovered yesterday when I started digging for this info

By the way, Spielberger says that the troops used "Saukopf." Jentz, who seems to limit himself to official documents, regards it as postwar. However, all the docs would establish is if it were an official designation.

......so the likely reason it started showing up in postwar literature is because the troops who fought with them used that term for it and the postwar writers picked up on it that so it's hardly a postwar" invention" . It may not be the "official" Topfblende designation but that doesn't make it any less legitimate a name


Late 1943 is really all I needed to know. I didn't want to add the new photo I have to the German OOB for the Ausf. G that starts in January 1943 and be scolded /crucified for using a photo of a vehicle that didn't show up until a year later ( because you KNOW I would be...)

BTW..... I KNEW when I posted the title of this thread we'd be having this conversation and considered using Saukopf/Topfblende but thought.....Naaaaaa lets see what happens

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

......so the likely reason it started showing up in postwar literature is because the troops who fought with them used that term for it and the postwar writers picked up on it that so it's hardly a postwar" invention" .

It is likely - it really looked like a kind of pig.

Originally Posted by DRG

Late 1943 is really all I needed to know. I didn't want to add the new photo I have to the German OOB for the Ausf. G that starts in January 1943 and be scolded /crucified for using a photo of a vehicle that didn't show up until a year later ( because you KNOW I would be...)

I wouldn't throw a stone, if the unit is available also in later period

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

I wouldn't throw a stone, if the unit is available also in later period

REALLY ? you just told me to make a photo correction because one pic showed a sprocket wheel at the rear of an obscure Polish Tankette

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by DRG

REALLY ? you just told me to make a photo correction because one pic showed a sprocket wheel at the rear of an obscure Polish Tankette

I think we all know that errors and inaccuracies are inevitable in a database like the SP OOBs. Nobody (or I certainly hope so) thinks that it's your fault. Also, especially when it comes to smaller countries there is also still a lot of new research done, which may change previous views.

I personally do not care too much about the photos and their accuracy, partially because they are so small and presented with a limited palette. I suppose it's good that someone does care. Still, I can certainly sympathize with you and understand that all the corrections and suggestions sometimes feel like "rivet counting" like Andy would say.

[Pibwl]

Originally Posted by DRG

REALLY ? you just told me to make a photo correction because one pic showed a sprocket wheel at the rear of an obscure Polish Tankette

Extremely obscure, since they were prototypes. But these photos had swapped captions in early TBiU booklet by J.Magnuski from the 1970s as well. I pointed it, because why not correct it, if it demands only swapping two numbers

IF the unit with Saukopf photo appeared in 1/43 and lasted until 1945, I wouldn't even notice, that something's wrong

[DRG]

OK, lets say that. It's easier than digging through all my notes

I'll compromise. I'll use one photo for the SP gun version and the other for the SP arty version

[cbo]

Originally Posted by DRG

Anyone have GOOD information as to when the the StuH 42 started being delivered with the Saukopf mantle ?

Don

According to Spielbergers book on the StuG "...from 1944.." and according to Jentz in his Osprey booklet on the StuG "...Topfblende had been introduced in mid-1944.."

For the 7,5cm armed StuG, the Topf- og Saukopfblende was introduced in November 1943 according to both sources.

This mantlet did not replace the old boxy one, both were made side by side until the end of the war.