Smoke overrated?

[Shorebreak]

Just finishing up a multiplayer assault/defend scenario and again I am getting overwhelmed by smoke. Doesn't matter how good my defense is, smoke just clogs up all the firing lanes and troops can just walk right up and then use their own smoke. As far as I know, smoke via artillery was never really that effective, mainly due to a little thing called WIND. Just look at the battle of the Seelow Heights for example. In SPWW2 though, smoke via artillery is fairly precise and last three turns, which is almost a lifetime in the game. It almost seems broken. Of course, I have no problem with infantry using smoke grenades, as they were often used to great effect against bunkers and snipers, but spamming cheap field howitzers and mortars just for the smoke seems like an exploit.

Anyone else have an opinion on smoke?

[Imp]

In game terms perhaps placing smoke by arty is slightly more effective as its easier to judge where to place it than it would be in real life. Of course this is countered by the fact that many other means of producing smoke are not modeled.
As to duration yes wind is always the same strong winds are not modeled, but smoke was used & maintained very effectivly & of course smoke grenades dont last half as long as shells. Screening for several hours or even I think days did indeed happen using smoke generators.

As to the other things you mentioned most armies realised this & had doctrines along these lines
Smoke hampers defence far more than attack, planing of firelanes is therefore cruicial.
Be prepared to defend important locations by hand to hand combat.
Be prepared to counterattack once the smoke starts lifting.

[Rosollia]

You should agree to limit the ammount of artillery with your opponent. If you have enough artillery to provide an effective smoke screen AND shoot high explosives to suppress all the defenders then you have way too many artillery assets.

Then again what did you do with your own artillery? The enemy was advancing in the cover of a smoke screen and if you bombard his advancing infantry they should suffer heavy casualties and rout.

spamming cheap field howitzers and mortars just for the smoke seems like an exploit.

And if you buy realistic forces then there would be no problems.

Bottom line beign:
Try to adjust your rules before crying out to adjust the game mechanics. If you buy realistic forces you should get a more enjoyable game.

[Spledge]

I'd be interested in learning how many points were allowed for arty purchases in your game Shorebreak.

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by Rosollia

Then again what did you do with your own artillery? The enemy was advancing in the cover of a smoke screen and if you bombard his advancing infantry they should suffer heavy casualties and rout.

Yep, smoke screen popping up should be an indication that there are likely to be some folks advancing from that direction sometime soon. Having your mortars pounding that area should make life uncomfortable for them.

Besides mortars and artillery, also MG units can be used to spray smoke-covered areas with Z-fire. And by my understanding, it is by no means gamey - historically MG units in defensive positions seem to have determined some pre-set fire lanes that they could spray under conditions of poor visibility.



As for the MRL abbreviation, that stands for Multiple Rocket Launcher, ie. any of those multi-barreled affairs that can fire a whole salvo of rockets rapidly.

[jivemi]

Originally Posted by Rosollia

Besides mortars and artillery, also MG units can be used to spray smoke-covered areas with Z-fire. And by my understanding, it is by no means gamey - historically MG units in defensive positions seem to have determined some pre-set fire lanes that they could spray under conditions of poor visibility.

Just wondering if this happened on the assault, and especially into trenches. For instance, in the Kursk campaign I would z-fire main gun rounds through smoke into trenches 150-200 meters away from my tanks (mostly Tigers) on the same turn infantry/engineers cleared paths through mines 100 meters from the trench line.

The effect was devastating: Not a single enemy unit fired as my infantry came adjacent and blew them away. Tanks with MG rounds left came in and added to the mayhem. This tactic was repeated a number of times, almost without fail.

So did they actually do this in WWII, or would this be considered a bit gamey? I'd like to make it a permanent part of my repertoire if it's not considered too much of an exploit. Thanks.

[StuFL]

Originally Posted by jivemi

Just wondering if this happened on the assault, and especially into trenches. For instance, in the Kursk campaign I would z-fire main gun rounds through smoke into trenches 150-200 meters away from my tanks (mostly Tigers) on the same turn infantry/engineers cleared paths through mines 100 meters from the trench line.

The effect was devastating: Not a single enemy unit fired as my infantry came adjacent and blew them away. Tanks with MG rounds left came in and added to the mayhem. This tactic was repeated a number of times, almost without fail.

So did they actually do this in WWII, or would this be considered a bit gamey? I'd like to make it a permanent part of my repertoire if it's not considered too much of an exploit. Thanks.

Sounds like effective suppressive fire to me.

[Mobhack]

It's the number of arty pieces that contributes - so lots of cheap ones may also help the attacker if he wants lots of smoke.

Attack and assault missions result in possibly more smoke ammo being given out than e.g. meeting engagements. (A larger random number is used).

But as advised above - if the enemy is using a smoke screen, then simply drop HE on his side and pepper the hidden troops. One of the best uses for your MRL is splatting massed concentrated infantry caught advancing in the open. i.e. MRL are more of a defenders weapon than an assaulters.

[wicked]

What is mrl? I typed it in googLe just to see if I could find a meaning and got Montana Rail Link ? Plus a few others. Iam pretty sure that's not what it is short for.

[Mobhack]

Multiple Rocket Launcher - an extremely common military acronym.

Googled it and about item #5 was the Wikipedia MRL disambiguation page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRL