French OOB

[Delta Wing]

I've been playing a French campaign set on 2012 and I've noticed a couple of things.

The "Legion spt pl" (formation 110) with trucks should probably have a Legionaire section instead of an Infantry Section and 81mm mortars instead of 120mm mortars.

The foot Legionaire company (98) should probably use the foot support platoon (102) instead of the one in trucks (110). It's quite unusual to have foot formations with motorized support platoons in the OOBs. I guess this is some kind of mismatch.

Currently the foot support platoon (102) and Mech FS support platoon (107) don't have the mortarts which the truck support platoon has. They also should have Milans instead of Eryxes and an option for the 12.7 HMG. Milans are used by the company support platoon while Eryxes are platoon level AT-weapons.

According to this the contemporary Legion sections should have FAMAS, Minimi SAW, ABL AT4 and LGE Mle F1. Platoons have an attached Eryx team. This is pretty much exactly the same organization as the modern Infantry Company (041) in the French OOB.

Apilas is notably absent from the TO&E presented at the page, and I can't find solid info on whether it's even used by the French army these days or not. I've read that it was some kind of a stopgap solution before Eryx and that it had major drawbacks. If they withdrew them from service it makes sense.

A very ubiquitous but suspicious piece of equiment in the French OOB is the Energa Grenade which is found on various infantry units. I find it kind of odd that the French would be using an AT rifle grenade from the 50's during modern times.

Many French engineer units are equiped with flamethrowers. Since nearly everyone has stopped using flamethrowers I' unsure if the french are really using them these days either.

Does anyone have any solid info on if Apilas, Energa and flamethrowers are still used by the french army?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

According to this French site (Or at least used to be.) the FA has 9000 APILAS weapons. I've found this site to be very reliable in the past and have used it often. In the "World Army" section they seem to be pretty good at keeping up on numbers of various equipment, where there is a "?" next say to a tank it usually means there's info that they probably have it, a deal is pending for it or it's unconfirmed. So use caution there and try to back it up with another source or two. Anyway a start point for you, should be the English version if not, and you need it, you'll see the Union Jack in the upper left of the equipment section to save you time.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/franc...eapons_uk.html

Appears they have changed their format, replaced the "?" with a "-".

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

On the list to investigate.......

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

Energa and flamethrowers are still used by the French army?

I will concede that the Energa is likely wrong but .......

Maybe.........maybe not. If anyone finds any info to confirm this or not pass it on. I still don't know if they are using the 105 howitzer and if not, when it when OOS. I've heard some guesses but I'm not pulling anything out of an OOB on speculation.

It is more than possible that they were put in originally on speculation but I will need hard info before Io pull them out and I'm already swamped with work and have no time to go on data safaris looking for the answers. I have more than enough right now to keep me busy 10 hours a day for the next month.

If anyone does find anything please post the info in plain english and the link clearly and not just a link. I have little time ( or humour....) for "discovery" expeditions ATM

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

I've been playing a French campaign set on 2012 and I've noticed a couple of things.

1/ The "Legion spt pl" (formation 110) with trucks should probably have a Legionaire section instead of an Infantry Section and 81mm mortars instead of 120mm mortars.

I will concede the error with the lead unit. Yes, it should be a Legionaire section instead of an Infantry Section but unless you have info better than "probably" I'm going to leave the mortars as is. "Probably" may be the reason they are there in the first place, or maybe not. If I'm going to change something I need more substantial than "probably"

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

2/ The foot Legionaire company (98) should probably use the foot support platoon (102) instead of the one in trucks (110). It's quite unusual to have foot formations with motorized support platoons in the OOBs. I guess this is some kind of mismatch.

"probably" again.

The problem I have with this is that "the foot support platoon (102)" has trucks as well which makes the whole reason you think that formation should be changed from 110 a moot point as both formations contain trucks and given they were set up with 120mm mortars having trucks to move them makes perfect sense so while I appreciate there may be questions about this, the "probably" answers don't help a whole lot in resolving it but only raise more questions

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Delta Wing

Currently the foot support platoon (102) and Mech FS support platoon (107) don't have the mortars which the truck support platoon has. They also should have Milans instead of Eryxes and an option for the 12.7 HMG. Milans are used by the company support platoon while Eryxes are platoon level AT-weapons.

This is what I mean about raising more questions

These are support platoons. They lead off with Inf-AT units because they start at 1950 and before and inf-ATGM didn't exist then. 110 contains Inf-ATGM and a contemporary battle would offer either Eryx OR Milan to anyone buying 110. If I were to change to Milans I would have to make new formations and if I was to make new formations to give those formations inf-atgm units I would need to know when that practice started so I can set up start and end dates but before I start rearranging the structure of the OOB ( and perhaps the picklists the AI uses ) I would need to know FOR CERTAIN this info is correct beyond " probably"


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For the 105mm French OOB Units 415 and 553 I think you can safely change the end date to be on the safe side to either 2000/or 2005 vice 12/2020. Also French OOB AUF 2 is not shown on the active French Artillery roster per the French DOD website showing current artillery in use. It's a start point...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/artillerie

Troops...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equ...l-et-collectif

Tanks with a couple of surprises...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/chars

Vehicles with some cross over units...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/vehicules

FELIN as I've already reported on...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equ...xperimentation

Thus far on ENERGA what I've found thus far is that it's a Belgian not French weapon still checking but no more this morning gotta hit the rack!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The donut hole for the the French 105mm field howitzer seems to fall between ~1975 to ~2005, the truth is in there somewhere and this has been a real challenge thus far, but I like a mystery. What needs to be watched for are the AMX 105mm SPA and the LEGION "Extraordinaire" who might have held on to them a little longer being somewhat outside the "mainstream" army and due to their mission as a rapid deployment force. It might turn out they still have them though, I draw no conclusions yet as I've not fully looked into it yet. Will stay on it. The tremors are only a few days away, be prepared!?!

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

For the 105mm French OOB Units 415 and 553 I think you can safely change the end date to be on the safe side to either 2000/or 2005 vice 12/2020. Also French OOB AUF 2 is not shown on the active French Artillery roster per the French DOD website showing current artillery in use. It's a start point...
http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/equipements/artillerie

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product574.html

"
The first qualification example was delivered by the company to the French DGA late in 2002, who then commenced qualification tests.

Late in 2003 it was revealed that the French Army had changed its policy on the upgrade of the GCT, and the 155 mm/52 calibre version will not be procured in the short term at least"

The Auf-2 was the 155 mm/52 calibre version. They went with the Caesar instead

This entry probably went into the OOB over 10 years ago on speculation it would be introduced but , as everyone is finding out, it's not always easy to find clear info on French Equipment.

Those links look great in French but I don't read French and the English links are not the same information.

As for the 105's, I'm still looking it.

As for the AMX-30B2 I keep finding info that there was gun stabilization that was electronic,controlled by the ballistic computer but there always seems to be other sources that say otherwise


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Hopefully lighting will strike twice, first was with the Australian MOD about their tank platoon etc. size you might remember from a couple of years ago. In that vain, I've contacted NEXTAR concerning the French 105mm.

Regards,
Pat