Vehicle Size- Does size matter?

[EOT]

What determines a vehicles size?
1) Weight
2) Length
3) Height
4) Width
5) Class
6) Barrel or weapon size
7) Crew size
8) Something else?

Vehicle sizes range from 2 to 6
Example: Tank Transporter 4 / Tanks 4or5 (Tank Transporter should be 6 or 7)

Most OOB's have many size discrepancies between vehicles and countries with same equipment.

Is their any way of getting a set of rules as a guideline for vehicle size?

This issue is critical to fair game play as size affects spotting and hitting.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by EOT

What determines a vehicles size?
1) Weight
2) Length
3) Height
4) Width
5) Class
6) Barrel or weapon size
7) Crew size
8) Something else?

2) Length
3) Height
4) Width

Originally Posted by EOT

Is their any way of getting a set of rules as a guideline for vehicle size?

Read the MOBHACK Help file

"SIZES OF UNITS

INFANTRY:

Size 0: Snipers, FOOs, Scouts, Inf-AT, Inf-SAM (all 5-men or less), MMG & HMG (see section on machineguns)
Size 1: all others

Note the ATGM teams are specifically made easier to spot in the game code because of the large flash and smoke emitted by these weapons.

ARTILLERY - GUN SIZES

Howitzers (on-board ONLY * )

up to 49mm = 0
50mm to 110mm = 1
111 to 150mm = 2
151mm to 215mm =3
216mm to 250mm = 4
250mm to 299mm = 5
300mm + = 6

* Counter battery fire does not use size as a factor for potential damage to off board artillery units. Any size number these units may have is ignored by the game


Infantry Guns and Anti-Tank Guns

up to 70mm = 0
71 to 120mm = 1
121mm to 180mm = 2
181mm + = 3

AA Guns

up to 40mm = 2
41mm to 90mm = 3
91mm + = 4"

Some very small ATV vehicles are size 1 but 99% are size 2+.
If you go thru the OOBs you can get a pretty good idea what size equates to what vehicle type.

There are of course exceptions, some based on OOB designer interpretation others on "common sense". Example : A medium truck with a canvas cover on the bed has a huge cross section ... but shooting holes in the canvas isn't going to bother the vehicle a bit so it's "size" may (and should) be less then it's height x length x width would indicate.

Originally Posted by EOT

This issue is critical to fair game play as size affects spotting and hitting.

Inconvenient - yes
Annoying - yes
Critical - no (unless the size variations are greater then +/-1)

[EOT]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

There are of course exceptions, some based on OOB designer interpretation others on "common sense". Example : A medium truck with a canvas cover on the bed has a huge cross section ... but shooting holes in the canvas isn't going to bother the vehicle a bit so it's "size" may (and should) be less then it's height x length x width would indicate.

The size of the truck should not be less because it has canvas. This makes it easier to spot/track and engage. You would engage the target until disabled or destroyed. If your just putting holes in the canvas than your probably using the wrong ammo to begin with.

[EOT]

I experimented targeting different vehicles at their front profile and side profile and found no credible difference in targeting accuracy. The range to the target/speed seems to much more important deciding factor.

I will experiment with spotting vehicles with varying sizes/speed.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by EOT

I experimented targeting different vehicles at their front profile and side profile and found no credible difference in targeting accuracy.

How could it be otherwise when size the game code reads is limited to one number ?


Don

[EOT]

With the armour ratings for front and side I thought maybe the targeting/spotting would change with vehicle profile frontal/side?

If Russian tanks are size 4 than the height profile of a vehicle is the most important factor in determining size.

Most SPA are size 6 and have a high profile.

[gila]

[quote=EOT;789514]

The size of the truck should not be less because it has canvas. This makes it easier to spot/track and engage. You would engage the target until disabled or destroyed. If your just putting holes in the canvas than your probably using the wrong ammo to begin with.

I'd have to agree,the size of truck should should be relevant to the actual profile of the vehichle downrange,regardless if most may be canvas,and usually it's transporting men or equipment!

[EOT]

(SP2) Size Definition: The Measure of the unit's weight and bulk.
(SP3) Size Definition: The Measure of the unit's silhouette size.
Large units are easier to spot and hit.

(SP2 and SP3)
Infantry squads 1
Attack helicopters 2
Main Battle Tanks 5
No object is larger than 12

If we go with the (SP3) definition of silhouette than we can use the front/side profile.

Front Silhouette = Width X Height
Side Silhouette = Length X Height

If we add the two totals and divide them we can arrive at an average silhouette size.

Examples

Bradley IFV Game Size=(4)
Front Profile (11.81ft X 9.78ft)=115.51
Side Profile (21.49ft X 9.78ft)=210.17
Average Silhouette 162.84

M1 MBT (5)
Front Profile (12ft X 8ft)=96
Side Profile (26.02ft X 8ft)=208.16
Average Silhouette 152.08

Lav3 IFV (5)
Front Profile 81.88
Side Profile 210.68
Average Profile 146.28

Lav-25 (4)
Front Profile 68.96
Side Profile 176.36
Average Silhouette 122.66

Stryker (4)
Front Profile 71.37
Side Profile 163.54
Average Silhouette 132.92

M113 (3)
Front Profile 72.24
Side Profile 130.71
Average Silhouette 101.48

T-72 MBT (4)
Front Profile 88.06
Side Profile 163.54
Average Silhouette 125.8

M109-A5 (6)
Front Profile 112.32
Side Profile 220.32
Average Profile 166.32

M109-A6 (6)
Front Profile 115.56
Side Profile 241.92
Average 178.74

Leopard 2 MBT (5)
Front Profile 98.7
Side Profile 205.93
Average Silhouette 152.32

Challenger 1 MBT (5)
Front Profile 94.14
Side Profile 223.86
Average Silhouette 159

Leopard 1 MBT (5)
Front Profile 94.67
Side Profile 199.11
Average Silhouette 146.89

Warrior IFV (4)
Front Profile 83.81
Side Profile 191.36
Average Silhouette 137.59

AAV7A1 Amphibious APC (6)
Front Profile 119.46
Side Profile 291.37
Average Silhouette 205.41

BMP-2 (3)
Front Profile 83.05
Side Profile 177.28
Average Silhouette 130.17

Humvee (2)
Front Profile 42.48
Side Profile 90
Average Silhouette 66.24

Cougar AVGP (5)
Front Profile 70.52
Side Profile 166.75
Average Silhouette 118.64


Spotlights
Size 2 Humvee Silhouette size 66.24
Size 3 M113 101.71
Size 4 Lav-25 122.66 T-72 125.8
Size 5 Lav-3 146.28
Size 6 AAV7A1 205.41

In keeping with (SP2) Tradition we should gauge the size of vehicles based on the MBT size of 5 as a reference point. We can decide on what the cut-offs are for size 2,3,4,5 and 6.

Cut-off Points
Size 2 (50-79)
Size 3 (80-109)
Size 4 (110-139)
Size 5 (140-169)
Size 6 (170+)

If we go by these cut-off points than the vehicle sizes are very close to what we have now in SPMBT OOB's. I think the vehicles that are off on the sizes are either typos and only a few would need to to adjusted per country. The sizes are actually more accurate than I first perceived.

[DRG]

Vehicle sizes are determined by their size in relation to other pre-existing units. In other words, the OOB designer looks at other tanks roughly the same size and uses that size or makes them one size bigger or smaller based on judgment. Given vehicles are either 1, 2,3,4,5 or 6 in size it is an acceptable system. The problem is when two different people interpret the same unit differently but 1 size either way does not have a serious impact on game play due to the large number of variable factors the game use as noted in Suhiir's post.

That said if Tank X in nation Y is size 4 and the same tank everywhere else is 6 there is a problem that needs addressing and if you have been reading the other threads on this forum you will already know that these issues are being reported and dealt with.

So YES, Length and Height and Width are the main determining factors in choosing a vehicle size but there is not and never will be a mathematical formula devised and used to determine a vehicles size. It's a judgment call and if you are aware of similar units with differing sizes then please do read the Anomaly thread in it's entirety and if there is a unit you know about that has been omitted tell us and we will note it down for investigation. That would be much more useful than blanket statements that "Most OOB's have many size discrepancies between vehicles and countries with same equipment"


Don

[Richard_H]

I'm actually saving the tanks themselves until last - I wonder why?

Richard H