Global Enchantments and Quickness

[shatner]

Hey folks, I have a few questions I was wondering about which I can't seem to find the answer to here on the boards.

1) When you cast a global enchantment, do you get any sort of bonus for having more paths than needed? For example, if an N6 caster casts Gift of Health (requires N5, costs 50 gems) and spends no extra gems to fortify the spell, is the spell still fortified because of the extra nature skill the caster has? Also, doesn't having extra astral make dispelling easier?


2) If you cast quickness on a commander, they can attack 1.5 times a round because quickness increases their AP by 50%. Does that mean a quickened, W9 blessed commander can attack 2x per round, since both of those effects stack to increase their AP by 100%? Furthermore, how many times per round can this double-quickened commander fire a bow or cast out of an item? Is there a flat AP cost for attacking/firing a bow/casting from an item (say, 10AP) or is it a relative cost? In other words, how exactly does having 50% or 100% more AP translate into extra attacks/shots/item-spells?


3) Finally, is there a reliable way to prevent quickened bow commanders from running forward every round amidst their firing actions?

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by shatner

Hey folks, I have a few questions I was wondering about which I can't seem to find the answer to here on the boards.

1) When you cast a global enchantment, do you get any sort of bonus for having more paths than needed? For example, if an N6 caster casts Gift of Health (requires N5, costs 50 gems) and spends no extra gems to fortify the spell, is the spell still fortified because of the extra nature skill the caster has? Also, doesn't having extra astral make dispelling easier?

Iirc, extra paths add 5 gems to any dispel check. Only natural levels count (empowering also counts, levels from items do not). If you use items to get the levels you need (dispelling with a S1 caster with 2 S items for example) you do not get a penalty. Penetration items do not help with dispelling.

2) If you cast quickness on a commander, they can attack 1.5 times a round because quickness increases their AP by 50%. Does that mean a quickened, W9 blessed commander can attack 2x per round, since both of those effects stack to increase their AP by 100%? Furthermore, how many times per round can this double-quickened commander fire a bow or cast out of an item? Is there a flat AP cost for attacking/firing a bow/casting from an item (say, 10AP) or is it a relative cost? In other words, how exactly does having 50% or 100% more AP translate into extra attacks/shots/item-spells?

There are various sources of quickness, the spell, blessing and heroic ability, and items. I don't know how they all stack. (Kailasa and bandar{{verify}} have a quickness spell, but I don't know how much that this spell gives in quickness).

iirc, the bless and items give 50%, and the spell gives 100%. Heroic ability (which stacks with the other sources of quickness) gives various amounts. I don't think the spell, the blessing and items stack. As the spell gives 100% (and an attack and def bonus) this overrides the other sources. The boots and jade armor also give 100% quickness, and the attack and def bonus.

Hope that answers your questions.

(and yes, a heroic quickend hero can attack more than twice each turn).

3) Finally, is there a reliable way to prevent quickened bow commanders from running forward every round amidst their firing actions?

I thought they just fired twice? Sadly I'm not that experienced with quickness on bow users. Perhaps give them a spellcasting item and set them to cast. (They will use the item twice, at least when they have boots).

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by shatner

3) Finally, is there a reliable way to prevent quickened bow commanders from running forward every round amidst their firing actions?

No, unfortunately not. This is why a water bless for sacred archers is good in theory, but a bit bugged in practice. I beleive this problem is only with the quickness from bless, a commander with quickness boots or self buffed with the spell should work fine. Did you have this problem with the bless, the boots or the spell?

[shatner]

Originally Posted by Fantomen

No, unfortunately not. This is why a water bless for sacred archers is good in theory, but a bit bugged in practice. I beleive this problem is only with the quickness from bless, a commander with quickness boots or self buffed with the spell should work fine. Did you have this problem with the bless, the boots or the spell?

I gave some W1H1 commanders lightning bows and told them bless, quicken self, hold and firex3, fire closest. I have a W9 bless so by the time they are shooting that have +100% AP. They actually do stand still during the "hold and fire" commands but once that script ends they shoot, run forward a bit and repeat.

[Fantomen]

Originally Posted by shatner

I gave some W1H1 commanders lightning bows and told them bless, quicken self, hold and firex3, fire closest. I have a W9 bless so by the time they are shooting that have +100% AP. They actually do stand still during the "hold and fire" commands but once that script ends they shoot, run forward a bit and repeat.

Try it without the bless and see if the problem disappears.

[Soyweiser]

I updated the quickness page on the wiki with more information on the ability.

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Quickness

[Stretch]

At least trying it without the bless would give an extra turn of double attacks!

[shatner]

I ran a couple of tests as EA T'ien Ch'i with a W9 pretender and observed the following behavior:

Test 1:
1x Master of the Way with a Longbow of Accuracy set to
bless, hold and firex4, fire closest

1x Master of the Way with a Longbow of Accuracy set to
quicken self, hold and firex4, fire closest

Note that the mages were very far apart so the bless only hit the one casting it. Sure enough the bless only gave 50% AP vs quicken self's 100%. Both casters would shoot, move forward a few squares and then repeat the pattern until they were in melee or the enemy force routed. Once routed, the mages would stay put and shoot. In fact, the Quicken Self mage would advance further than the blessed mage because he had more AP.

This is significant because a longbow of accuracy can reach across the entire battlefield (no need to move forward to get a target in range) AND has no reload time like a crossbow.


Test 2:
1x Prophet set to Divine Blessing, holdx4, stay behind troops

1x Master of the Way with a Longbow of Accuracy set to
quicken self, hold and firex4, fire closest

1x Master of the Way with a Longbow of Accuracy set to
quicken self, fire closest

Sure enough, the W9 bless and quicken self don't stack. In this case both of the mages behaved identically, shooting and advancing and shooting. This shows that it doesn't matter what you script the bastards as, they'll still creep forward in between shots no matter how ill-advised.

[rdonj]

It should be noted that, although the quickness itself doesn't stack, the defense bonus does. So it's not altogether useless to combine the effects.

[Soyweiser]

Only the AP bonus doesn't stack. Bless also gives +2 morale