Newbie who chose Land of the Bakemono

[earwicker7]

Hey, all. It's my first playthrough on single player, and I chose MA Shinuyama for role-playing reasons (I thought their description sounded like it could fit with my "I'm going to play like Sauron!" idea). Anyways, like I would expect with a game like this, I'm kind of overwhelmed (although this is the first time I've played a 4x game where I've REALLY gotten that "One more turn!" feeling) so I'm rereading the manual and checking out some online posts about the game. One of them, at the strategywiki for D3, says that "it’s certainly not the easiest nation to play, especially for a beginner". Yikes! What have I done?

I'm looking for a judgement call from some more experienced players... am I better off just plowing through the game on a difficult nation, or should I restart with an easier one? I don't want to get in that situation where I always restart ten turns in hoping that my next game will be perfect, which can be a problem with 4x games that don't have scenarios, but on the other hand, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm not learning much because I'm playing a difficult nation.

For those who recommend restarting, what's a good beginner nation?

On kind of a side note, how many of you who play the game regularly finished the first non-tutorial game you played? Am I the only person who tends to restart a couple of times before I get in the groove of things?

Hopefully, I'll be ready to play multiplayer after a few single player games.

[iRFNA]

All I know is that shinuyama must be played with this in the background.

[earwicker7]

Originally Posted by iRFNA

All I know is that shinuyama must be played with this in the background.

I have all three of the extended version soundtracks. Approximately 11 hours of pure bliss! The Nazgul leitmotif chills my bones every time I listen to it.

[sector24]

I would stick with the nation as long as possible. Either until you are defeated by the AI or the turns take so long to complete you feel like starting over. You will learn a lot no matter what nation you play, don't worry about "missing out" on anything.

There was a big thread just a little while ago about the best nation to start with. The preference was generally nations with powerful national troops; Niefelheim, Hinnom, even Abysia. They let you focus on how to play the game without worrying too much about losing.

[thejeff]

If you can get a good start, Shinuyama isn't a bad nation to play. They've got powerful recruit-everywhere mages and some strong troops.
The longbow Dai-Bakemono are very good, just expensive and resource intensive. Once you get a few castles built, you should be able to build enough of them. More castles will also let you build more mages and you can play around with troop buffing and artillery spells.

Some neat national summons too.


If you can last awhile and expand it'll go well. If not, it'll be over quickly and you can move on.

Playing around with nations that interest you is probably a better approach than trying to find the perfect starter nation. If you get slaughtered, try out the nation that beat you.

[Amhazair]

Originally Posted by thejeff

If you can last awhile and expand it'll go well. If not, it'll be over quickly and you can move on.

Playing around with nations that interest you is probably a better approach than trying to find the perfect starter nation. If you get slaughtered, try out the nation that beat you.

This is probably the best advice anyone could give you.

About Shinuyama specifically: Someone recommended Dai Bakemono to you, and they really are excellent troops, but they are also expensive in gold and especially resources, so you probably can't rely on them early on. Instead why don't you look at the unassuming Bakemono-sho's. They're small, they're weak, they die easily... and they're really good value for their gold cost, and ridiculously good for their resource cost. I really like buying just a few tougher blockers, (Dai Bakemono if you can afford them, otherwise even a few Kappa* can do the job.) and then put a bigger swarm of Bakemono-sho's right behind them. (Preferably the ones with slightly heavier armour, unless you are planning on stealth adventures.) That way the blockers will catch the enemy arrows and absorb the first attacks, but the bakemono-sho's will be right behind so they attack together and the blockers don't become overwhelmed. The Bakemono archer guys meanwhile, are just as good at archery as regular humans, but are significantly cheaper, and again, cost ridiculously few resources, so they're excellent value and you can buy enormous amounts of them in one turn. Against anything with light armour they can dish out good damage.

Meanwhile your excellent mages (Bakemono Sorcers are gold for gold one of the best mages in the game, and recruitable everywhere to boot.) can rush your research, either in evocation (self-explanatory) or enchantment. The big spell in enchantment is flaming arrows. Try casting flaming arrows on a big army of Bakemono archers and you will forever understand the value of big battlefield-wide spells.

* WARNING: Kappa really aren't very good on land, and die quickly, without it being very apparent why, so I really hesitated recommending them to a new player. (hint: it's because they accumulate fatigue quickly on land, and fatigue is a killer) Never, ever recruit them in great numbers, or make an army of them, except to take water provinces if you want to try how that works. They do however just fit the bill to protect the more fragile Bakemono from arrow fire and the crucial fist turn in melee. Once the enemy has made contact and the bakemono rush forward to swarm them the Kappas really have done their job.

[earwicker7]

Thanks for the advice, all. I'll tough it out.

[earwicker7]

Since they have a lot of stealth units, should I do some "sneak my army into their backyard" maneuvers, or are they likely to pick up on that? Still figuring out the stealth mechanics.

[thejeff]

You can try. Aim for lightly defended provinces.

Your stealthy troops aren't very good, so you'll need quite a few of them. The more you bring the more likely you are to be caught.

The exact formula is in the manual, but each unit you bring subtracts from the commander's stealth, so use the commander with the highest stealth.

[LDiCesare]

Shinuyama is rather strong. Its mages can research enchantment and evocation for animate skeletons and evocations like shadow blast or earlier fire spells. Skelly-spamming in particular is very efficient if you bring in several mages to raise undead chaff.