3d Terrain Viewer?

[joeyeti]

Hi folks,

I came to WinSPMBT after long years of silence on my side as to the wargames on PC. I have played Steel Panthers 2 back in the old days (though not THAT extensively) and enjoyed it very much (more than say Panzer General or such).

I am liking WinSPMBT even more and as some have said here already, a 3D version might have been a blast even (yes, I know, old engine, precious time, other commitments - I have skimmed all 30+ pages of discussions here already).

What has struck me then is perhaps not a whole game in 3D, but a terrain viewer, that could load a scenario/map and display it in its 3D height-profile? So that before battle you could view the map (probably externally out of the game) and see the blank map without units and get a better spatial feeling as to what awaits you?

Is something like that possible - to take a scenario/map and render it in a (pseudo-)3D?

[Mobhack]

It would be a lot of work, for little real gain.

There is plenty of example code out there for 3D mapping - and all is based on a Cartesian (square grid) universe. With heights plotted for the corner points of the triangles, and not the grid square. Hexagonal mapping is something else entirely. have not seen any example code out there. So the wheel would have to be invented entirely from scratch.

You will have to do your map reading the traditional way officers have always done it, i.e. from a 2D map. Paper in their case, on a screen in yours. (And that is one reason we do not provide a utility to calculate LOS in any random hex, since on a paper map you have to judge it 'by eye'. Only by having a real unit go to the hex can you get a report on the 'actual' LOS). As in R/L - a map position may look like a perfect OP, but the unit you send actually reports back that new brush, or a brand new factory building has been built since the maps were updated last. (SP maps are 100% perfect, totally and utterly unlike real life. And your unit goes exactly to the place you ordered, again rather unlike real life too! . SP has an inbuilt GPS system even in 1930, and its 'satnav' does not send 40 ton articulated lorries down country goat tracks because the system thinks they are real roads).

Cheers
Andy

[Kartoffel]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

It would be a lot of work, for little real gain.

There is plenty of example code out there for 3D mapping - and all is based on a Cartesian (square grid) universe. With heights plotted for the corner points of the triangles, and not the grid square. Hexagonal mapping is something else entirely. have not seen any example code out there. So the wheel would have to be invented entirely from scratch.

You will have to do your map reading the traditional way officers have always done it, i.e. from a 2D map. Paper in their case, on a screen in yours. (And that is one reason we do not provide a utility to calculate LOS in any random hex, since on a paper map you have to judge it 'by eye'. Only by having a real unit go to the hex can you get a report on the 'actual' LOS). As in R/L - a map position may look like a perfect OP, but the unit you send actually reports back that new brush, or a brand new factory building has been built since the maps were updated last. (SP maps are 100% perfect, totally and utterly unlike real life. And your unit goes exactly to the place you ordered, again rather unlike real life too! . SP has an inbuilt GPS system even in 1930, and its 'satnav' does not send 40 ton articulated lorries down country goat tracks because the system thinks they are real roads).

Cheers
Andy

I kind of like the idea of less than accurate maps. Would it be possible to make the maps the user sees slightly inaccurate or with small blank areas?

[eniced73]

http://www.mekwars.org/forum/viewtop...e68abf7d417269

Check this out. I remember seeing this awhile back when I was messing around with this game. The maps are hexagonal like SP but I am not sure it would come anywhere close to working. It is a java base game I believe so I highly doubt it will work. Worth a look though. Someone with more knowledge about the SP games will have to take a gander at this.

[joeyeti]

Thx Mobhack!

I figured it would be hard to do
Too bad no precedence was built/made/used yet...

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Originally Posted by joeyeti

Hi folks,

I came to WinSPMBT after long years of silence on my side as to the wargames on PC. I have played Steel Panthers 2 back in the old days (though not THAT extensively) and enjoyed it very much (more than say Panzer General or such).

I am liking WinSPMBT even more and as some have said here already, a 3D version might have been a blast even (yes, I know, old engine, precious time, other commitments - I have skimmed all 30+ pages of discussions here already).

What has struck me then is perhaps not a whole game in 3D, but a terrain viewer, that could load a scenario/map and display it in its 3D height-profile? So that before battle you could view the map (probably externally out of the game) and see the blank map without units and get a better spatial feeling as to what awaits you?

Is something like that possible - to take a scenario/map and render it in a (pseudo-)3D?

Don't think so, but you can always map an area with the data presented in winSp games, but you can't render a map directly from the game files

[Imp]

It would not look very good due to the lack of data polygons but should be easy enough to program if "crack" SP map code.

1) Each hex is represented by 6 polygons radiating from the centre of the hex. (Each polygon is a 3 sided triangle with points at the hex centre & both either end of one edge.
2) Reads map height
3) Reads terrain type to determine the texture.
Programing that should not be to hard though visibility levels & its effects could be a bit more difficult.

As Mobhack said though most free engines that could do it like Real are based on squares.

[junk2drive]

Would a topo style map work for you? Go here

http://www.wargamer.com/Hosted/Chlan.../SP/ww2map.zip

What I did was create a Chandla folder inside WinSPWW2. Extract the files into that folder. The program won't work that way to edit. Read the readme. But for a topo map, start the program, load a MBT map. You get a blue screen. Under tools, click contour map. Then click show. Optional you can check terrain and then show again.

[RVPERTVS]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

that is one reason we do not provide a utility to calculate LOS in any random hex

Andy: Is it actually posible to provide such an utility?

Originally Posted by junk2drive

What I did was create a Chandla folder inside WinSPWW2. Extract the files into that folder. The program won't work that way to edit. Read the readme. But for a topo map, start the program, load a MBT map. You get a blue screen. Under tools, click contour map. Then click show. Optional you can check terrain and then show again.

I´m not following, I´ve tried that and no blue screen appears what´s that for exactly?

Keep Cool
Roberto

[Imp]

Originally Posted by RVPERTVS

Andy: Is it actually posible to provide such an utility?

Roberto

This would make the game terrible giving you even more Eye of God, dig out a map or look at one on the internet & decide what you can see from a certain point. Unless its pretty obvious you wont have a clue & even then probably takes a bit of searching to find the sweet spot. Yes its iritating at times when you find that ATG or ATGM cant see squat have lost units even had to reformulate tactics because of it but I decided to check out a better firing point. Now I try & send a less valuable unit to go & check it out first if am unsure.
Its part of why a delaying force can stop a bigger force you have checked out the fields of fire he hasnt, allso makes vehicles more useful as they can check out more ground.
Knowing what you can see without going there is totaly unrealistic.