Tir na n'Og

[Jarkko]

I just took part in a game on a small random map as Tir na n'Og (with 5 land nations and 3 water nations). First time ever I played with them (althugh I've tried Eriu against the AI). They seemed to have very nice sacred troops and very nice thugs (bless, barkskin, mistform, resist lightning, attack x1, cast spells (counting on the AI to shockwave), so I took an imprisoned pretender (ie I didn't expect to see him in the game, as things get hectic on a small map ) with E9 W4 N4 and decent scales. I thought I would walz around as a king.

Well, I really did think so. Instead I got totally pwned (as they say in the world of MMO's).

First I got into a war with Yomi. Lost all my six thugs in first battle next to my capital. The freezing a-oni stunned my thugs, and they were then burned by the flamecasting troops. My prophet with the sacred troops were barely able to hold their own, but I decided to attack Yomi capital in the hopes of turning their main army from my capital. Alas, that did not happen.

In a desperate attempt to save my capital I recruited massed slingers from my second fort and recruited the elephant mercs. In a battle of massive losses (the elephants killed lots of Yomi when they rushed forwards, and they killed lots of Tirs when they rushed backwards...) I succeeded to push Yomi army out from my capital, but they were heading in with another one. It did look as I was toast.

Then Pangaea attacked and gave me the coup de grace. The minotaurs ran down my sacred army and put my second fort under siege (damn sneakers...). With no army and with forts about to fall I went AI.


Now, what did I do wrong? I wasn't double-teamed until I had already lost to Yomi basically, and I have to say I have not been that impressed with Yomi before. Surely Tir can't be worse than Yomi, so it must have something that I did totally wrong Also, what is the Tir weapon against tramplers?


EDIT: To clarify, Yomi and Pangaea were AI in this game.

[Kuritza]

I never thought Yomi is bad, actually. And Tir is almost as bad as Eriu, in my opinion.

[Micah]

Well, throwing non-resistant thugs against elemental attacks is obviously a pretty large mistake, and false fetters should do a number on most tramplers.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Micah

Well, throwing non-resistant thugs against elemental attacks is obviously a pretty large mistake, and false fetters should do a number on most tramplers.

Good points, thanks!

Once I noticed I am next to Yomi I should have recruited massed slingers, they actually did a very good job (mostly because the flames were targeted at the phants I guess, but still) and keep my thugs well behind the lines casting long range spells.

As I had succeeded to kill my A2 thugs I didn't think of false feathers against the minotaurs (and I had my battle-morale pretty much decimated by then ). Even though there were nearly 200 ( Pans must have got a really nice random event(s) for extra money) minotaurs trampling on in two armies, false feathers would have surely ripped their ranks apart and make it easier to take care of them.

[Festin]

Tir na n'Og have Tuatha Sorceress - very powerful cap-only air mages(A3N2 by default, 1/4 will have A4, and even A5 is possible), so instead of thugs I would recruit one each turn and go straight for Thunderstrike(they have good research too). Good synergy with earth bless and national reinvigorating spell songs. Several of them behind a Firbolg screen would solve most of your problems, I think. You do not have any archers, so Storm will work perfectly for them later on. They are also sacred, stealthy, have glamour, darkvision, forest survival, earth and water randoms and do not age. They cost 360 gold, so you will probably want to avoid very bad scales.

[Torin]

you still have the save from the battle with yomi?
i would like to see those demons to use.

[Jarkko]

Originally Posted by Torin

you still have the save from the battle with yomi?
i would like to see those demons to use.

No I don't. As we were playing with direct IP server I don't have any e-mail, and thus the battle has been wiped away several times already from my computer (and while the host is in my garage I don't have it taking backups of the turns; it's slow as it is already (generating the random map took 32 minutes )). Didn't occur to me to save my total humiliation

[Humakty]

As your thugs need time to buff themselves, they tend to be very vulnerable to fliers, so storm can be handy in this case too.

[AreaOfEffect]

Your thugs have nature magic. The spell to cast is Elemental Fortitude combined with items like the frost brand.

The frost demons are called Ao-Oni. They a recruitables for the nation of Yomi, so seeing them is a matter of starting a new game with the nation and pressing 'r'. These units become summons in later ages.

In regards to Yomi being a pushover or not, the truth is that any nation can be a challenge with the right player set behind it. All nations have tools to deal with any other nation, and if they don't, well that is what pretenders are for. A pretender can always lend any nation things they do not naturally have, thus give them new advantages. Sure some nations have natural advantages over several others, and some nations are just easier to conquer with (looking at you skinshifters), but all nations have a chance to 'pwn'.

Edit: Also, I would not rely on the AI to cast spells that you want. I would also not buff a thug and then set them to cast spells at all. You buff a thug so that they can wade through melee. Casting spells yields too much fatigue in the end and will cause your units to die. Fatigue lowers attack and defense skill, it also allows for a greater chance of critical hits, making your units armor nearly worthless. Instead you should have ordered your units to: buff, buff, buff, hold, hold, attack. Holding allows your thugs to recover fatigue from the buffs. Either script your units to cast evocations and the like on the enemy before they reach you, or cast buffs and attack. A mix of the two will generally get you killed.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect

Your thugs have nature magic. The spell to cast is Elemental Fortitude combined with items like the frost brand.

The frost demons are called Ao-Oni. They a recruitables for the nation of Yomi, so seeing them is a matter of starting a new game with the nation and pressing 'r'. These units become summons in later ages.

In regards to Yomi being a pushover or not, the truth is that any nation can be a challenge with the right player set behind it. All nations have tools to deal with any other nation, and if they don't, well that is what pretenders are for. A pretender can always lend any nation things they do not naturally have, thus give them new advantages. Sure some nations have natural advantages over several others, and some nations are just easier to conquer with (looking at you skinshifters), but all nations have a chance to 'pwn'.

Edit: Also, I would not rely on the AI to cast spells that you want. I would also not buff a thug and then set them to cast spells at all. You buff a thug so that they can wade through melee. Casting spells yields too much fatigue in the end and will cause your units to die. Fatigue lowers attack and defense skill, it also allows for a greater chance of critical hits, making your units armor nearly worthless. Instead you should have ordered your units to: buff, buff, buff, hold, hold, attack. Holding allows your thugs to recover fatigue from the buffs. Either script your units to cast evocations and the like on the enemy before they reach you, or cast buffs and attack. A mix of the two will generally get you killed.

There's nothing wrong with a Tuatha buffing up some mistform and resistance, then letting loose with a bunch of shockwaves, especially if he's got some nice gear like a vine shield and rainbow armor, and an EN bless. He'll rout any non-100%SR army long before turn 50, and will average 5 fatigue all battle. You do have to hope that he doesn't fire off a barkskin if there are enemy F mages in the PD (or Yomi Aka Oni, or Fire Drakes, etc).