Retreating

GrudgeBringer · #1 May 21st, 2009, 04:47 PM

If the only avenue for retreat after a battle of an enemy is his fortress and...

1. I attack it (the fort) at the same time and 'lock it down' will I have to fight his retreating army?

2. IF I already have it under siege would that change anything or would it be just like an army attacking the sieging force to try and break it?

Dumb Question but I hinestly have never had that situation come up.

Thanks

Trumanator · #2 May 21st, 2009, 04:57 PM

I'm not sure about all of that, but I do know that when I tried to break a siege on a fort that was surrounded, about half my commanders decided to die while retreating to enemy territory instead of running back into the fort

Endovior · #3 May 21st, 2009, 05:02 PM

That shouldn't be a surprise. The manual specifically says that's what happens.

Not sure what OP is asking... but an army hiding in a fortress can't actually retreat to it. AFAIK, the besieged province counts as an enemy province, irregardless of any number of troops hiding in the fortress. For that matter, an army attempting to break siege can't retreat at all.

thejeff · #4 May 21st, 2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endovior

That shouldn't be a surprise. The manual specifically says that's what happens.

Not sure what OP is asking... but an army hiding in a fortress can't actually retreat to it. AFAIK, the besieged province counts as an enemy province, irregardless of any number of troops hiding in the fortress. For that matter, an army attempting to break siege can't retreat at all.

Actually, despite what the manual says, an army attempting to break siege can retreat as normal. They cannot retreat to the fort, but will flee to any neighboring provinces still held.
As they can after the castle is stormed.

Falkor · #5 May 21st, 2009, 05:05 PM

1. No, the enemy will have no way of retreat.

2. No. Retreating army will not attack your sieging force nor will it take part in break siege started by another party.

TheDemon · #6 May 21st, 2009, 06:37 PM

A sieged fort counts as an "enemy" province for the purpose of retreating, that is, you will never retreat to a sieged friendly fort.

If the fort is put under siege that turn, it depends on the order in which the battles are fought. If the fort siege battle is fought first, retreating enemies from a battle adjacent will not retreat to the fort province. If the fort siege battle is fought second, retreating enemies from a battle fought adjacent may retreat inside the fort, but will not fight outside the walls.

If your units rout from a Break Siege battle, or even a fort storming battle, and they rout off the battlefield (regardless of if you win or lose), then they will retreat to an adjacent friendly province. If there are no adjacent friendly provinces, they will die. This will happen as long as they routed individually, even if you win the battle at the fort. Units that rout (as in make it off the field) from a battle in a fort's province will never rout to the fort itself. Never.

Frozen Lama · #7 May 21st, 2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDemon

.
If the fort is put under siege that turn, it depends on the order in which the battles are fought. If the fort siege battle is fought first, retreating enemies from a battle adjacent will not retreat to the fort province. If the fort siege battle is fought second, retreating enemies from a battle fought adjacent may retreat inside the fort, but will not fight outside the walls.

I believe you are wrong here TheDemon.

all battles are fought at once, THEN all units retreat. so if you lose both battles, your units will have no where to retreat to.

MaxWilson · #8 May 21st, 2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Lama

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDemon

.
If the fort is put under siege that turn, it depends on the order in which the battles are fought. If the fort siege battle is fought first, retreating enemies from a battle adjacent will not retreat to the fort province. If the fort siege battle is fought second, retreating enemies from a battle fought adjacent may retreat inside the fort, but will not fight outside the walls.

I believe you are wrong here TheDemon.

all battles are fought at once, THEN all units retreat. so if you lose both battles, your units will have no where to retreat to.

Yes and no. Certain battles (initiated during the magic phase) may take place before others. For instance, if you teleport an SC into a province P1, get routed and flee into P2, which is attacked that turn, you will see your SC participate in both battles. I haven't tested what would happen if P2 had a fort in it, but it's possible that TheDemon is correct and that the SC would just hide inside the fort for the second battle, as units usually do if they're not set to Patrol.

-Max

MaxWilson · #9 May 21st, 2009, 07:00 PM

The fort itself (owned by A) counts as a special "virtual" province F which is adjacent only to the province P it is located in. No one will ever retreat into the fort. The besieging army (owned by B) occupies P. Therefore if A's army in P' (which is adjacent to P) is routed, they cannot flee into P or F. If they have nowhere else to go they will all die.

-Max

TheDemon · #10 May 22nd, 2009, 12:37 AM

Yeah, I've retested the behavior, the way it works is movements are resolved, then all battles are fought, then all retreats are resolved. Under the current behavior it is impossible to retreat into an enemy prov if a friendly prov is available upon retreat resolution.

This seems to me to be a recent change, as I've chained retreats sucessfully before, as recently as last year. One instance was where I teleported on an army and teleported onto all surrounding provinces on the same turn, and what happened was the army was routed, then part of it fought with the PD against a teleporter in the surrounding prov, and on resolution that part ended up two provinces away. This behavior doesn't seem to be possible anymore.