Gem Income?

[Rysith]

So, I'm a dominions 3 newbie. I've been reading the various guides here and trying to get a sense of the different nations and their strategies, and it seems like there is something really big that I'm missing.

In many of the guides, and in general, it seems like there is access to a much larger pool of gems than I'm getting in my SP "feeling things out" games. People are talking about monthly castings of Achistic Record, teleporting half a dozen commanders about in a mid-game attack, and so on.

Late-game, when I've taken and searched most of the map, I'll have a gem incomes sometimes touching 30 per turn in the gem types that I'm focusing on. When I'm starting to go to war, I'm lucky if I have incomes of 10 per turn in the major magic paths I have. Right now, for example, I'm trying out LA Pangea (since the guide came up to the top), and I've just started engaging my first AI with nature/death income of around 7 each, despite having searched nearly all of my sites with pans. That doesn't seem like it's enough to be wildly raising carrion centaurs and things like that.

I suppose that the question is, are those normal gem incomes, and I'm trying to do too much, too quickly? Are my gem incomes stunted, and I'm doing something wrong? Have I simply had bad luck with my site searching?

[WingedDog]

In MP people often trade gems - it is a way more cheaper way to get desired type of gems out of undesired ones then alchemy. Besides there are global enchntments for gem income (for nature Mother Oak for example) and gem produsing units and items. And in different games there is different frequensy of magic sites set by game administrator before game starts.

[MaxWilson]

I rarely have gem incomes above about 20 per turn in any particular path until the game is effectively over, unless I've got a global up like Earth Blood Deep Well. Your gem incomes sound pretty normal. Of course, it all depends on your empire size.

Consider, though, that an astral income of 30 gems per turn IS enough for monthly castings of Acashic Record. Teleporting 5 commanders is only 10 pearls per turn.

By the way, your gem incomes will of course be slightly higher if you have site-searched with spells or high-level mages instead of low-level mages. I'd guess that searching to X3 (for any magic path X) nets you 30% more gems than X2, and 80% more than X1. Roughly. At a guess.

-Max

[Dragar]

A lot of players will have large numbers of gem producing items by late game, especially clams for astral. And some MP games use high magic site settings.

There are some magic sites that let you cast spells for cheap. In a recent game I had a Conj 50 site, letting me cast Acashics at a 50% discount.

Also, there tends to be a bit of hyperbole in a lot of the guides, you get the impression that they are doing all of these wonderful things all the time when in fact they will be doing so in short spurts having saved up gems.

[chrispedersen]

Betelgeuse, late 30's Jim has the highest gem income I have ever seen - at about 147 - roughly 2.5 per territory. Not counting clams etc.

[Scarlioni]

I agree, using gems means saving for them. I don't use ashariac record much, but to go with Thau2 Evo2 and Conj2 and site search for the specifics I need.

[Omnirizon]

I think your gem income sounds pretty normal.

typically, there are one or two gem types are acting as a bottleneck on what you can do with your other gems; this depends on the nation you are playing and your particular strategy. I think for most people equipping thugs drains most of their gems; so if there is one piece of equipment you need, or a particular thug you are summoning, that becomes the bottleneck. The best way to conserve gems is to not waste them. Don't use thugs recklessly, and find out the best equipment. Often, a thug with 40 gems worth of equipment can outlast one with 100 gems worth if you equip smartly (also, having access to certain buffs can help a ton here, as it allows you to use a spell in place of equipment or to boost the effectiveness of it).

also, acashic(sp?) record is really bad efficiency. Given the above, you are typically better off focusing your searching. Also, by late game others have searched out provinces, and acashic record will severely overlap. By mid game, when wars are involved and provinces changing hands, it is difficult to know what your opponent has already searched for. Best to try and infer from what paths you know they have, and also sort of favor taking chances on searching for what you really need.

Lastly, I never manually search, I find it so inefficient. Spell site searching is twice as quick, and therefore translates into gem income twice as fast (not to mention more efficient use of mage time). Given that, you will make up for the gems spent on the searching. Another benefit is that you can be very precise (targetting mountains/wastelands/forests first; targetting each land type with the appropriate search type; etc); this also translates into quicker gem income (especially of the types you want the most).

[Micah]

Omni: Remote searching is only twice as fast if you have single-path mages, which is a rarity (especially since the ones you get early are generally the cap-only ubermages from each nation.)

As to the OP, most of the main points have been hit already. (Jacked up site settings compared to defaults, gem generators, hyperbolic guides and Acashic record being sucky)

[llamabeast]

Yeah, I think your gem incomes sound pretty normal or even good.

[JimMorrison]

Re: 7N+D after your first searching - that's partially just the vagaries of the RNG. Sometimes you get really screwed. I've searched 20 provinces as Caelum, and come up with an Air income of 5 (including the 3 from my capital, it was awful!). Ironically, I did quite well in that game after becoming quite pessimistic. Your options will certainly be limited if you come up short on your preferred gem types, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world - though it may be the end of a strategy, and the beginning of a new one.

Acashic record is actually hideously inefficient now, with remote searches fixed. You are still much less effective when you search the provinces that already got 2-3 sites, but searching per path (may cost more mage turns, sure) costs you 15 gems and 2 slaves to hit everything, except any provinces that hits 4 will stop searching, and you can just cancel out searches on a path once the easy pickings are done, if need be.

Indie mages can do wonders for you. No nation should -ever- have to go without Nature searches, due to the proliferation of indie N mages. Search enough provinces, and the majority of my games find me Enchantresses. Their random paths are unreliable, but over time they will give you access to all 4 elements. Likewise, there are numerous other sites that give nice multi path mages, that will unlock doors for you.

Manual searching has only one purpose - unlocking a baseline gem income of any path which you have no income, but you have mages available. Now that remote searches are fixed, you lose nothing but a little mage time to go out and do these searches. Only have an S2 to start manual searches? No problem, your spells will hit those provinces again later, if you choose to allow them to.

I still do a lot of things wrong in this game, but I am quite positive that Mage Turn + 2 Gems = Worth It. The more searching, the merrier. You would be amazed what you find, if you just put in the effort to search everything. Sure, sometimes you don't get as much of something as you want - but if you milk your income of everything else, it makes trading or substituting into effective options.