Some thoughts, some issues

Uncle_Joe · #1 December 20th, 2008, 04:35 PM

Hi all,

My copy arrived on Thursday and I've now had a chance to play a few games. My first was as Japan and it was mostly a learning experience. I managed to win with a 'Cut the Sea Lanes' victory, but I dont think I would have been able to do that against a human opponent. I simply didnt have enough forces to actually hold onto Espiritu Santo, but the AI never really came after me in force.

My 2nd game as Japan was another fairly easy win (again, by cutting the sea lanes). It was a little hairy at the beginning because I had some trouble securing Oil in time, but once I did, I never encountered any real resistance.

My 3rd game is in progress as the Allies. Its March 1944 and the Japanese fleet has all but been slaughtered for at least 6 months. BUT here is the problem - I'm just not getting any of the 'random' Marine reinforcements. I've received 2-3 the whole game. Thats it. So its not possible for me to win simply because I'm not getting randomly generated reinforcements?! That seems really poor IMO. I have smashed every Japanese base I'm allowed to hit. Even 'destroyed' bases prevent you from moving farther so I'm stuck. It feels fairly silly to have all 12+ CVs and 20+ surface combatants who cant sail past the wreckage of the enemy bases to hit something farther in...

I believe there needs to be some ABSOLUTE MINIMUMS to the number of Amphibs that are received. At the very least, one every other turn should happen. Without that it makes no difference how well you do if you're screwed by the lack of Marines.

That aside, I'm currently enjoying the game. It has some quirks, but it gives a nice feel for grand Pacific strategy without bogging down in the details. I think I personally would have preferred a few more bells and whistles, but I realize that the line has to be drawn somewhere and that feature creep is a very real danger.

I'm not sure how much replayability it will have vs the AI, but I'm going to try and get a friend or two interested over the holiday season and maybe see how it plays H2H.

alejes02 · #2 December 21st, 2008, 12:15 AM

Originally, I believed that as well. After quite a few games, however, I discovered that the Allied player must follow the same strategy as his historical counterparts. Simply put, you must decide where your main axis of advance will be--you can't just invade everywhere. You must marshal your resources, perhaps have your invasion troops build up in Australia, and then invade when and where the time is right.

This is really a sound design decision and plays out quite historically. I'm impressed.

Uncle_Joe · #3 December 21st, 2008, 03:21 PM

Gonna have to disagree with ya 100%. I've now played the game out another SEVEN MONTHS and not a single Marine unit. I dont believe its even possible for me to win now since I cant the bases in time required for B29 raids or certainly not to take away enough of Japan's Oil.

And I would wager that REGARDLESS of your strategy, there is no way to win as the Allies with only 2-3 Marine units all game. That has nothing at all to do with deciding axis of advance or strategy or even historical results. Its simply bad luck or bad design that does not reflect reality in any way, shape, or form (seriously? I cant drive by the wreckage of Wake which is a few 100 miles away from my fleet, but I can sail clear back to the US West Coast, then to Alaska, and then onto Japan just fine?!?!).

As I said above, each player should be guaranteed at least enough Amphibs to be ABLE to win. On top of that, DESTROYED bases should not inhibit movement. That would give more incentive to actually protect and expand your bases unlike now where once you have it, its a permanent roadblock unless your opponent lucks into some Marines.

Uncle_Joe · #4 December 21st, 2008, 03:28 PM

Ok, I just finished the game out and I'm hoping that this is a bug and not a design flaw. Because if its working as intended, its a serious game killer IMO.

Not a single Marine unit from 1943 until the end of the game (Japanese victory in Jan 1945). Japan had no functional navy and no active bases outside of the Home Islands and the 3 closest that were protected by the magical force field of destroyed bases on the front).

I have the save game if its needed for bug hunting.

Herode · #5 December 21st, 2008, 04:42 PM

Looks like a bug. Did you check the reinforcements screen ? The expected Marines are displayed here, with the date they are supposed to be available (in West Coast, so far). In my game, all works as scheduled.

alejes02 · #6 December 21st, 2008, 05:53 PM

I've had the same results. Enough units to get the job done but not enough to romp and stomp all over the entire map. I guess he could have encountered a bug, but I wonder what he did to trigger it.

ScottWAR · #7 December 22nd, 2008, 03:07 AM

I did a test. I started 4 games as the allies and checked the reinforcement list. In all 4 the allies recieved 2 amphib units the entire war. The first game gave them both in 1942, the next 3 gave both of them in 1943.

There are 'emergency' transports that will be received in certain situations also.

I dont see how the allies can do anything with two transports the entire war though. In human vs human games, if the IJN players knows what the conditions are for the allies to get emergency transports, he can avoid them if possible and starve the allies of transports.

Does the reinforcements list change or grow as the game goes on?

Uncle_Joe · #8 December 22nd, 2008, 11:19 AM

Yes, the reinforcement list can change. I restarted a new game as the Allies and saw the same 2 amphibs on the list. But as the game progressed, a few more appeared on the list (and in-theatre). The number still seems extremely small however, and if you fail in even one invasion attempt you are likely to be sitting on your hands for months waiting for another.

I only have 2 games as the Allies under my belt, but my initial impression is that the amphib rate is far too low for them. I dont recall lack of troops to ever be THE bottleneck of the island hopping campaign and the quirks of the movement rules make the problem far worse.

Hopefully this can be sorted out fairly quickly because this issue really makes the game quite unappealing as the Allies. I cant imagine wanting to play this multiplayer knowing that the Allied player can so easily simply lose the game due to 'bad rolling' in the number of Amphib units granted.

alejes02 · #9 December 22nd, 2008, 12:55 PM

You're right in that lack of troops wasn't a bottleneck, but lack of landing craft and transports was. I've played 5 games as Allies now, and each time I just have to be very careful in my planning and execution. I can't get into the invade and counterinvade routine, or I use up what I have. The best strategy is to get those transports to Brisbane and wait for the right opportunities to appear. I've won 4 of my 5 games that way. That being said, I too note that only two transports appear in the reinforcements list, but another one pops up sometimes. What triggers that? Shouldn't there be more than one additional one pop up? Is there some sort of allowance behind the scenes for a European theater using up men and materiel?

Uncle_Joe · #10 December 22nd, 2008, 01:17 PM

This last game as played as the Allies, I received a total of 9 Amphib units over the course of the game. This is plenty - enough to do the job, but scarce enough to require planning. The prior game with only 3 was unwinnable regardless of planning.

I believe its just a random chance of getting the Amphibs (past the first 2, anyways). Thats fine and all, but I think there should be an absolute minimum of around 6 or so by mid 44. Otherwise you can easily lose the game through absolutely no fault of your own - not a lot of fun.