Mad rantings

[Singularity24601]

Hello peoples,

A few of you might remember me from years ago:
* I modded using features that had not yet been implemented for modders by editing the .exe file. However, this method proved unpopular, and is rarely needed anyway.
* I modded using Illwinter sprites before the unit sprites were officially released. I initially extracted 1 or 2 sprites by manually reconstructing them one pixel at a time based on screenshots. This method was obviously far too difficult. What I never revealed was that afterwards, I was able to write a computer program to decode .trs files. I never released this program so that Illwinter could maintain control of their own data and formats. As a demonstration, I have attached some unused nation flags from flags.trs (as far as I know, these have not been released?); seems like Illwinter drew up flags for Mordor and Isengard .

The main reasons preventing me from re-entering the modding scene:
* Finals exams before graduation in a few weeks.
* The inability to express certain ideas into the Dominions 3 engine. Most limitations can be worked around, but the main issue for me at the moment is the lack of #nationmon/#nationcom commands for magic site modding (set 'nation nbr' as -1 to allow any nation to recruit the unit). If these commands existed, they would allow features such as:
- A map where Arcoscephale, in addition to its capital-only units, could recruit Homoioi from the province of Laconia ("This! Is! Spartaaa!!!"), Hieros Lochos Hoplites from the province of Boeotia (Illwinter's 'Heart Companions' are based on these), etc.
- A scenario where a nation is after some sort of 'promised land', with improved unit options on arrival.
- Most importantly, it would solve the issues of limited sites per province, and limited abilities per site (I've already maxed out the number of possible capital-only units in my mods).

By the way, here's my draft unit list for an alternative Atlantis, not Illwinter's underwater realm, but a powerful human nation before it sunk into the ocean. I've based my design by combining ancient Greek texts about Atlantis with archaeological findings (artifacts and deciphered texts) from lost civilizations that preceded Classical Greece (Minoan, Cycladic, Mycenaean):
- Slave Warrior
- Slave Slinger
- Slave Archer
- Amphipolos?
- Spearman
- Swordsman
- Slinger
- Archer
- Kiritewia
- Purkoos
- Hierourgos
- Kitimenouros
- Halouros?
- Hippeus
- Damokoros
- Hiereus
- Hiereia
- Chariot
- Chariot Archer
- Wanaktouros (spear)
- Wanaktouros (sword)
- Heqetas
- War Elephant
- Klarwiphoros?
- Qerasia
- Hiereia Anemon
- Moiroqqas
- Koreter
- Lawagetas
- Wanax

[Aezeal]

nice idea, but apart from the first I really think the other reasons aren't very good not to be modding, work with what you have.. it's quite a lot really

[Singularity24601]

Yeah, it is indeed a lot... in fact, it is surely 'the most'.

Just that... say with T'ien Ch'i ME... currently we can have 4 startsites with 5 abilities each for a total of 20 abilities... minus 4 for the gem production and 4 for capital-only units, leaving us with 12 slots. I want to try to add some more uniquely Chinese character with:
- at least 5 types of warrior monks (5 Shaolin animals)
- 2-4 types of repeating crossbows (light and heavy versions exist)
- at least 5-6 different types of 'alchemical fire weapons' (gunpowder probably originated in China)

...and already, I've filled up all the slots available, and I am no longer able to add anymore capital-only units... and some ideas are too powerful to be recruitable everywhere...

[Aezeal]

weaken the idea's a bit and make the recruitable everywhere... leave some idea's out and make a 2nd nation with it.. I always think it's sad when I see nation (how ever great they are) with about 20000 recruitables etc and then realize that when you play 1-2 will probably stand out as being the best and the rest will not be used much. THis will be ESPECIALLY true if it's cap only units. Making 12 + cap only units is a waste, only the best 1-3 max will be recruited, the rest won't.

Better split them over 2 similar flavoured nations will also give the nation more focus. Make one monk nation and one alchemical weapons nations for example. The limited description won't let you tell a lot of the background anyway, if you give the nation a bit of focus it will be more coherent and clearer for those who didn't make it.

[Singularity24601]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

weaken the idea's a bit and make the recruitable everywhere... leave some idea's out and make a 2nd nation with it.. I always think it's sad when I see nation (how ever great they are) with about 20000 recruitables etc and then realize that when you play 1-2 will probably stand out as being the best and the rest will not be used much. THis will be ESPECIALLY true if it's cap only units. Making 12 + cap only units is a waste, only the best 1-3 max will be recruited, the rest won't.

Better split them over 2 similar flavoured nations will also give the nation more focus. Make one monk nation and one alchemical weapons nations for example. The limited description won't let you tell a lot of the background anyway, if you give the nation a bit of focus it will be more coherent and clearer for those who didn't make it.

Good point, and when playing to win, I usually only focus on 1-2 unit types myself (ah, if only Dominions 4 would have recruitment limitations... eg, Knights can only be recruited from the 'noble proportion' of the population, whereas slings can be recruited from the far more plentiful 'lower classes', forcing one to field more 'historical' armies... the Mongols had arguably inferior troop types, but they were unstoppable because unlike the European powers, they had far better 'recruitment limits' and were able to recruit much more of their population into cavalry), but I must also confess that I tend to mod for atmosphere and aesthetics rather than only game practicality - if a nation historically known for a certain unit which is rather inferior in practice, I'll wanna mod it in. What I really like about Dominions is the sheer width of research put in and sometimes I just like to add to that... even if at times it's more flavor than function... more a painting than a tool.

Might seem weird to some, but I like to play against AI not with just victory in mind, but rather deliberately use a suboptimal but more interesting strategy - whether to get myself into conundrums and try to solve them, or usually just for the sake of the simulation and the story.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Your note about scenario might be answered by site modding or by unit modding with the mid-game change of the games mod done by a pre-exec call. Check out this thread...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...light=scenario

Oh and I do remember your exe edit fondly. I always meant to modify it to change (update) the hints text in the game.

Gandalf Parker

Oh, pre-exec calls? How's that done? Can we edit the 'fatherland' now or something?

[Endoperez]

Regarding sprites, EricM has extracted the sprites and they are available for the modders. He has only extracted unit sprites for the units that are available in the latest version, the attachment is somewhere in the forums. If it isn't in the faq, it should be.
Interesting to see those two flags. They really do look like the white hand and the flaming eye. Would be interesting to know what they're doing in there.

It is possible to make a map in which a nation starts with province X (which has site which allows the owner to recruit national units), but which independents conquer on turn 2. This can be used to produce results similar to what you suggested, especially for scenarios. Furthermore, scenario could be set up so that the player starts with pre-determined god, nation and scales, and doesn't get the map but an actual game already underway. While this can be annoying if you don't like the pretender design, it does let you see fights of the previous turn as well as read any messages sent to "everyone" the turn before. As an example, it could show the assassination of your prophet in a far-away province as well as a fight in which your now-commanderless forces rout from overwhelming enemy force, with a message explaining that the evil Hinnom just ate everyone.

[Gandalf Parker]

Your note about scenario might be answered by site modding or by unit modding with the mid-game change of the games mod done by a pre-exec call. Check out this thread...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...light=scenario

Oh and I do remember your exe edit fondly. I always meant to modify it to change (update) the hints text in the game.

Gandalf Parker

[HoneyBadger]

I'm the opposite of Aezeal, in that I try to do Nations with more than 1 or 2 ways of playing them. It means drawing a lot more units, and a *lot* more work with the .DM files, which is why it takes me a looong time to post finished mods, but I'm aiming for maximum replayability, and there's usually enough leftover material that I end up with more, rather than 1 less, mod idea, per finished mod.

[Gandalf Parker]

The game has many switches. Two are for pre-exec and post-exec. You can specify a program to be run just before hosting, and another for just after hosting.

Its often used for doing backup game saves, or for searching the games debug file for events automatically, or making some sort of noise to tell you that the game has hosted, etc etc.

In the case of your scenario you could have it check the game.log for someone reaching the "promised land" and then change the MOD file to grant those special units you mentioned.

[Aezeal]

having more units is not the same as having more than one way of playing a nation. I'm pretty sure most nations have more than one way of playing them even with a small number of units. Even with 2 ways of playing them a small number of units will be used. On the other hand if you make a nation with 2 VERY different ways of playing them you make 2 different nations anyway so then I don't see the reason to put them together. replayability: 2 nations would certainly give the same replayability as 1 with to much units.

anyway, more units are hardly much more work on the .dm file since a unit is easily created.

anyway sing, I'm not against units for flavor, I love that, but over doing it is another thing. Personally I never thing about strategies when making a nation, I just create the units I think flavor dictates they should have.
But when faced with a large number of unit idea's putting them in 2 balanced nations so more of the units can be used still is usefull (I'm very much in favor of the gusy working on greenskins doing a north and south version of them and Sombre had idea's for 2 empire nations)