Map: 2 New maps: Otherland and Spheres

[VALIS]

Two new maps.

The first "Universe of the Spheres" is a colored woodcut, territories are outlined in bold, paths between stars and sphere's are marked with black lines. 81 land + 0 sea

The second "Otherland", a satellite photo with territories outlined in bold. Any boarders that touch allow travel. 37 land + 6 sea

This is 5 maps in as many days.

You know, I like Dominions 3 and was really excited to be creating content for it. I made some statements when I first posted - that map creation was easy, and that I felt disappointed in the selection, so I decided to take action to correct that.

I, like many of us here, am college educated, well traveled, and well read. I *know* that it is not easy to create a map pixel by pixel. It is amazingly difficult and time consuming and after hundreds or thousands of hours it can produce a thing of beauty. (And often may never happen - I mean the thread is even titled "The map that will never be")

Of course that's completely unnecessary to create a Dominions 3 map. All you need is an image - whether that's a woodcut, a photograph of your Warhammer 40k terrain, a pencil illustration or whatever. You need to add white dots and territory names and traits, and write some text and play-test. *That* isn't difficult - and apparently isn't done. [1]

I had excitement and saw a lack and didn't just complain, but took matters into my own hands and gave these maps to the community. The response? Threats, criticisms by people who didn't even try the maps, and a long string of verbal abuse (swearing and name-calling) by one of your long time members, followed by them telling me I deserved it. And, hell, you know, I only created 5 maps. I would hate to think what I would have deserved if I *hadn't* actually produced a solution to my issue instead of just mentioning it. (There were nice and helpful people and things said - I mention those at the end :-)

I spent some time searching the boards reading about strategies and such and actually ran across several posts, where someone new to the community said something about it being insular and hostile. The next response from a regular was "Not this complaint AGAIN!"

I've gotten some advice about how to manipulate or befriend the community. That's not my goal. My goal was just to share some things I made for a game I like, and hopefully inspire someone who, up till this point, might have thought they needed to put in hundreds of hours to have a good looking and functional map.

I search semi-annually for new Dominions maps, and had never come across this board in my search. It was only once I reached the IRC channel that I learned about these resources. In my enthusiasm I decided to share. I have some web space where my software is hosted, and I think that perhaps that is a better place for me to post my maps. It seems as if it will be easier to find from Google, and truthfully, some of the hostility makes me not excited about something I really like -- Dominions 3.

Just a few final words - there *are* some really nice maps, *and* some really nice people. I know there are probably actual balance issues with my maps, and I'd really like to say thanks to the people who tried them out and gave me good advice. And some people in the IRC channel have been *very* nice, lch, and Pshawdawg in particular. I don't expect *anything* from this missive, it's just if we find the world a way we dislike, nothing will change if we don't take action. Sharing my thoughts and creating these maps are my actions.

Enjoy the maps.



[1]Of course it can be a little more difficult to produce a *good* map. As Sombre said, balancing and testing take time. :-)

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by VALIS

Of course that's completely unnecessary to create a Dominions 3 map. All you need is an image - whether that's a woodcut, a photograph of your Warhammer 40k terrain, a pencil illustration or whatever. You need to add white dots and territory names and traits, and write some text and play-test. *That* isn't difficult - and apparently isn't done.

Yes it is. You've been told this. Several maps we've had for a long time have been made by taking a satellite photo, map taken from another source (or fantasy world) etc and turning it into a dom3 map. There aren't as many of these as user created map images though, probably because people enjoy making the images and want to create their own maps.

The response? Threats, criticisms by people who didn't even try the maps, and a long string of verbal abuse (swearing and name-calling) by one of your long time members, followed by them telling me I deserved it. And, hell, you know, I only created 5 maps. I would hate to think what I would have deserved if I *hadn't* actually produced a solution to my issue instead of just mentioning it.

If you have received threats I suggest you notify the forum administrators immediately.

As for the 'long string of verbal abuse' I invite people to look at the response I gave you on this forum and why you got it. You came to the forums essentially putting down everyone elses efforts, then denied you did and put words in the mouths of others. In fact I believe you've now edited your original posts because of the reaction you got, which was well deserved.

I've gotten some advice about how to manipulate ... the community.

I doubt that. All the advice I saw given to you was how you could avoid people having the negative reaction against you they did. That isn't manipulating a community, that's just making an effort not to offend them.

[VALIS]

Originally Posted by Sombre

If you have received threats I suggest you notify the forum administrators immediately.

As for the 'long string of verbal abuse' I invite people to look at the response I gave you on this forum and why you got it. You came to the forums essentially putting down everyone elses efforts, then denied you did and put words in the mouths of others. In fact I believe you've now edited your original posts because of the reaction you got, which was well deserved.

The threats and verbal abuse came from you Sombre and it was in IRC, not the forums.

I'm an adult now, but even when I was a child I was taught to not call people names. There's no excuse for being abusive - no reason good enough to lash out and be hateful. I work daily with people in abusive relationships, and everyone's always got a reason for why they hit someone, or called someone a name. Doesn't make it right.

I'm not denying I removed a sentence that might have been poorly worded soon after posting my first map when someone commented it might have been out of line. This, I think, was the right thing to do. What's up now is what I stand by. If there was a miscommunication (as in the case with ballbarian), I freely admitted to it, and clarified myself. I know it doesn't happen, but people should focus on what I *did*, not "essentially" what I did.

Look, uh, I guess the point is, I made some maps, and the choices you made caused me to be less excited both about contributing to the community and playing Dominions 3. I regret coming here and taking the time to contribute because of what you wrote and how it makes me feel.

[Sombre]

[quote=VALIS;643313]

Originally Posted by Sombre

The threats and verbal abuse came from you Sombre and it was in IRC, not the forums.

I didn't threaten you. That's a flat out lie that's easy to show up by checking IRC logs. I called you out on the way you acted on the forums. I wasn't the only one who had a strong negative reaction to it.

There's no excuse for being abusive - no reason good enough to lash out and be hateful. I work daily with people in abusive relationships, and everyone's always got a reason for why they hit someone, or called someone a name. Doesn't make it right.

I wasn't being hateful. I was calling a spade a spade. You yourself said (paraphrasing) "If you don't like the way the world is you shouldn't just ignore it" - I don't, I speak my mind. Particularly on IRC or in person.

Look, uh, I guess the point is, I made some maps, and the choices you made caused me to be less excited both about contributing to the community and playing Dominions 3. I regret coming here and taking the time to contribute because of what you wrote and how it makes me feel.

Wow. Grow a pair. Seriously. If I actually believed you were crying yourself to sleep every night over it I might think "Hey maybe I was a bit harsh" but it's clear you're playing the bird with the injured wing now.

Oh noes Sombre was mean to me and now I don't like dominions! Hilarious.

Until you accused me of threatening you I just disagreed with what you said. Now I want absolutely nothing to do with you. I'm putting you on ignore to try and avoid this becoming some scary e-drama. I hope this works for you.

Edit: I can't seem to find an ignore function on this forum, so I'll do it the old fashioned way. Point is I wash my hands of this. I think this solution will suit VALIS too.

[Gandalf Parker]

The threats and verbal abuse came from you Sombre and it was in IRC, not the forums.

Not the first comment Ive heard about the IRC channel.
Thats one of the reasons we have another one available here. On the Quink Links button at the top of the forum is a link for FLashChat. Check it out.

[Gandalf Parker]

Very creative. Thanks for those.

A number of people have used very creative sources for maps. Map generators from other games, satellite images, fractals, spirograph, magnetic charts, multiple layers for underworld-surface-air, ringworld, etc.
I even remember one discussion about playing on the image of a girl in a bikini.

The more creative maps dont tend to get the same play as the more mundane ones but they do add good contrast to the overall collections.

[llamabeast]

I quite like the look of the satellite one. The land could do with a bit more constrast though I think, it looks a bit homogeneously dingy. Also it's hard to guess what the terrain types will be. The sea looks lovely.

[Sombre]

Yeah the sea does look good. I think there's more scope for maps which do interesting things with water provinces - deep trenches and coral reefs and underwater caves for instance.

[Singularity24601]

Originally Posted by Sombre

I think there's more scope for maps which do interesting things with water provinces - deep trenches and coral reefs and underwater caves for instance.

Here here. I'm currently making Earth-based maps by combining satellite photos with topographic and bathymetric data (estimated ~2000 provinces for the whole planet, but I plan to release smaller sections separately). Researching and interpreting ancient names of all the world's provinces, bays, gulfs, straits, etc, is slow though manageable, but I've found relatively little information on the names of Earth's underwater terrain features. Sure I've got the main trenches, ridges and basins, but anyone know where I can find more detailed resources such as this example?

[innerpattern]

I completely regret bumping this thread now... there is a reason I said, "but that is the past this is now..."

I was hoping cooler, and more logical heads would prevail