Transport for U.S. Patriot Units.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Been playing since the SP days. Glad when WinSPMBT came out (and WinSPWW2.) Great Job guys! To my question, maybe I'm missing something but I can't seem to find any transport units to move my U.S. Patriot units. I know the game supports this as I've just finished a campaign as Dutch forces (present day) vs. Russia. As the Dutch you can buy the the Patriot units with or without transport.
Thanks!
FASTBOAT TOUGH
USN/SS Ret.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

Been playing since the SP days. Glad when WinSPMBT came out (and WinSPWW2.) Great Job guys! To my question, maybe I'm missing something but I can't seem to find any transport units to move my U.S. Patriot units. I know the game supports this as I've just finished a campaign as Dutch forces (present day) vs. Russia. As the Dutch you can buy the the Patriot units with or without transport.
Thanks!
FASTBOAT TOUGH
USN/SS Ret.

The TO&E forum is the correct place to ask equipment or or organisational questions. That is why the forum description reads "This forum is the place to post your modified OOB files, to find official fixes to WinSPMBT OOB data and to discuss them as well as equipment."

Heavy trucks can probably move them - try buying heavy truck units which will probably be in the misc menu. Ditto prime movers.

As to why does the Dutch OOB have mixed Area SAM/Transport formations units, well whoever edited the OOB some time in the past must have added such. Some OOBS may have them, others not. Default is to have area SAM without organic transport, just like for towed arty.

Cheers
Andy

[thatguy96]

I'm sure a heavy truck or prime mover would be able in game to load and carry them. However, with the Patriot missile system its getting to be more gamey (ala the Tank Transporter) than realistic. Not a problem per say, but something to think about.

This isn't going to just pack up and go in less than 10 minutes:

[Mobhack]

The game has no real concept of set up times so the patriot is probably best set up as an area SAM class which you need to go to the bother of doing a pick up and move.

Similarly - the SA-6 system (for example) we allow as an SP-SAM, but the actual system set up if moved would be in the tens of minutes at least to hook up to the directors and radars that the game does not model either. In that case, the speed is deliberately reduced to make large displacements slower. (and the S-400 etc., will need that fix as well - they are currently rather high at 20 hexes ATM).

Cheers
Andy

[PanzerBob]

Good day,

Area SAM's are an issue that you damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Ideally they should be an Off Board asset but then being able to attack them would be an issue. On board unless the system is truly mobile I don't see why it should be movable except after it has shot it's salvo, and even then only to hide them.

The point made above ref Patriot etc is quite valid in regards to the set up times. Patriot and other systems have no business in our battle-spaces unless things have gone terribly wrong. A Patriot Bn is a 600man unit for those of you not aware.

All this said, these systems do effect the air space over our battle-space, and need to be represented somehow. I'm assuming the Engine cannot handle these systems as off board. Personally for their cost other AA assets are more useful due to their mobility. IMHO

Bob out

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by PanzerBob

Good day,

Area SAM's are an issue that you damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Ideally they should be an Off Board asset but then being able to attack them would be an issue. On board unless the system is truly mobile I don't see why it should be movable except after it has shot it's salvo, and even then only to hide them.

The point made above ref Patriot etc is quite valid in regards to the set up times. Patriot and other systems have no business in our battle-spaces unless things have gone terribly wrong. A Patriot Bn is a 600man unit for those of you not aware.

All this said, these systems do effect the air space over our battle-space, and need to be represented somehow. I'm assuming the Engine cannot handle these systems as off board. Personally for their cost other AA assets are more useful due to their mobility. IMHO

Bob out

Area SAM covers all towed equipments - to include Rapier, Aspide and so forth, which are definitely on map point-defence assets.

I am like you - I tend to use mobile AA assets since the AI is programmed (and a human opponent will!) treat them as high-priority targets if it has invested in aircraft.

But the option is there for the player to use them if desires, and they do have the advantage (the longer ranged ones) of being able to engage incoming aircraft off the map, and those firing ASM off map too. But a mobile SAM with range can do that too - so I would buy an SA-6 SP-SAM in preference to an SA-3 system, since it can trundle off somewhere else and set up a new position even if slowly.

When playing .uk, I do use towed rapier in overwatch (the SP land rover is a somewhat gamey unit IMHO).


Cheers
Andy

[KraMax]

Time of expansion/curling of complexes S-300 and S-400 = 5 minutes

[thatguy96]

Originally Posted by KraMax

Time of expansion/curling of complexes S-300 and S-400 = 5 minutes

I can believe the basic erection or collapsing of the system components might only take 5 minutes, but I guess I don't believe that that's all that's required for complete system operation. I would think various connections, either physical or not would have to be made between the FCS and missile launchers, and that various formalities (system diagnostics, etc) would have to be performed before the system could be termed "operational." The game doesn't really reflect any of this, so I maintain that moving these systems around in the "instant" game timeframe of loading and unloading and even with the 1-turn lag for firing them is sort of gamey. Not a problem, since it is a game.

[Marek_Tucan]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Similarly - the SA-6 system (for example) we allow as an SP-SAM, but the actual system set up if moved would be in the tens of minutes at least to hook up to the directors and radars that the game does not model either.

Just a note, saw it live this spring on a show, the evolution of a modernised Kub battery (reduced) took ca. 15 minutes, after that the missiles were able to track incoming Hinds, but hard to say how representative it was and whether the unmodernised system would be as fast as that.

[KraMax]

This time has been confirmed at some military exhibitions with real shooting by rockets.
How much I remember in game 1 turn = 5 minutes. Or I am wrong?