You can't complain that this game is costly

[Beorne]

Sometimes I complained for the resolution of big old bugs or for the introduction of some additional features, is 4 yrs I play almost only Dom and the support is never enough.

But you can't say (like often happens) this game is costly.
I bought EUIII. Very good game, veru few bigs, great support. But to complete the game you need the two expansions. You will then have a very good complete game for about 70-80 €.
I bought GalCivII. Very good game (the guys at Paradox rocks). But You will need the two expasions to complete it.
My friend bought CivIV. The same.
And don't tell me after some time the price will drop, after 3 yrs it will published GAlCivIII, EUIV, anf CivV. And the wheel of time will go around.
Somewhere a video game marketing specialist had this "three for one" great idea, like dropping 1 cent to have the 9.99 effect, but for me is like cheating.

[Gandalf Parker]

I agree with most of that. For a game like this one, the support will never be enough. As amazing as it is, people will always come up with things they want "fixed" or changed.

Definetly not costly. I get far more for my money than any other game I remember.

I suppose that Shrapnel could package 2 of their other games with it, but as you say it would feel like cheating if thats what it takes to get some people to buy it. As for the 9.99 thing studies have shown that people often make decisions based on even amounts. As long as $9.99 sells so much better than $10 then we will see it being done.

Gandalf Parker

[Edi]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

For a game like this one, the support will never be enough. As amazing as it is, people will always come up with things they want "fixed" or changed.

I suppose that depends a bit on how you define support. Personally, I have found the support for the game exceptional, but that may be a function of my perspective as the person who maintains the bug shortlist and the modding wishlist.

The black section of the shortlist may still look pretty daunting, but compared to what (and what severity) has been fixed, there's not a lot left and relatively little of it is serious. The more recent slew of things we have gotten with the new modding stuff is humbling. So much more has been unlocked that enables mods to be much better than they used to be. The number of mods that have been updated to take advantage of that in the past couple of weeks is staggering.

That's not even going into all the other brand new content in the patches, such as 9 new nations to date. We may or may not get new nations with new patches. We may or may not get some other new mechanics such as new terrain types. We will probably get some more modding commands, depending on how easy they are to do and how enthusiastic Illwinter is about them.

Outside of this, realistically the only other things left are broadly two categories:

1) Network side for automating server setup and game setup and management somewhat

2) Altering, tweaking and balancing existing things.

Of these, number 2 is an endless bone of contention, because you can never satisfy everyone. Or necessarily even the majority. Some people will be ecstatic if certain things are altered, some will cry nerf an others will go meh, no matter what is done. This is the only place where the argument that support is never enough gets any traction and there it is by definition true, since there is never an end to wishes, desires and demands from players. And I'm not talking about just the people registered here at Shrapnel Games.

At the end, it boils down to what kind of support expectations are reasonable and what has been done, and in this regard I think Dominions 3 has been one of the best supported games I have ever seen. Best supported by far. On top of that, the value for money you get out of it in terms of replayability and the price per hour of gaming wrt initial cost of purchase is pretty eye-opening.

With that combo, Dominions 3 is hard to beat. Very hard.

Of course, this post expresses my opinion and is NOT some pronouncement of The One & Only Truth from on high. Your experience and mileage may vary, depending on your expectations.

[Sombre]

Yes I can. It's far too costly. I can't get any of my gamer friends to buy it and play MP with me, which is something we do a lot with other games. One of us really loves a game, so the rest of us buy copies so we can play it together online. This happens all the time. Console games, PC games,....

There's just no chance of that happening with Dom3.

Although I'm a huge fan of dom3 I'm not going into some kind of nutty denial about the price. People largely expect prices to drop and plenty of people just don't buy games at full price. It isn't going to happen with Dom3 and as a result these people won't be buying dom3.

Note I'm not trying to say what I think the price /should/ be. That's none of my business. Shrapnel do what works for them and know more about sales figures and costs and all that crap than I do. But arguing dom3 isn't costly is daft. Just compare it with similar games that have actually had their price lowered. Sure you can say 'Ah but dom3 is better'. And I'm sure you think that's true. But objectively speaking, if you want value for money (in terms of say,.. PC games) Dom3 isn't a game I'd suggest buying. I'd avise people to buy various similar, cheaper games. Some of which have even more user made content and more active communities.

But that's just me.

[Aezeal]

I'm not with you Sombre.

Yes the price is high bu saying teh value for money ratio (or whatever you should call it) isn't good is ridiculous, especially from you. Considering the time you must spend on these forum and the mods you must like the game and I bet that there aren't much games you bought that have kept you busy so many hours (in price/hours this MUST be one of the top 10 games for you) so the value for money is good.

considering all this I think it's strange you wouldn't recommend buying the game to others.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Aezeal

I'm not with you Sombre.

Yes the price is high bu saying teh value for money ratio (or whatever you should call it) isn't good is ridiculous, especially from you. Considering the time you must spend on these forum and the mods you must like the game and I bet that there aren't much games you bought that have kept you busy so many hours (in price/hours this MUST be one of the top 10 games for you) so the value for money is good.

considering all this I think it's strange you wouldn't recommend buying the game to others.

In a straight cost and time ratio it would lose by default to all the free games I've played. So that's not a sensible way of measuring the value for money.

Also my enthusiasm for dom3 isn't particularly rational and I'm aware of this. To me my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world. Is she really? Should I be trying to convince oters of this? Of course not. It's the same with dominions. It's one of my favourite games, but objectively speaking it isn't particularly good value for money. I'd say Age of Wonders for example, which can be picked up for virtually nothing, is far better value for money. As are hundreds of other games which are incredibly good, but are now at bargain basement prices.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Sombre

In a straight cost and time ratio it would lose by default to all the free games I've played. So that's not a sensible way of measuring the value for money.

Nonsense. Your computer is necessary hardware to play any game at all. Therefore, the cost of the initial purchase must be ameliorated out over the cost of each game/hour.

Placed in these terms, it makes the cost "reductions" of other, inferior games that much more ludicrous. It also makes a free flash game that you play for 3 hours and never look at again, utterly unable to compete against games that you put any real energy into.


In your case Sombre, I think it's pretty simple - you can gauge your friends' tastes. Either they won't get deeply enough into Dom3 to appreciate it at its fair price - or they will. I can't imagine that anyone who likes TBS fantasy wouldn't go head over heels for Dom3, just like the rest of us have.


So, while you can argue that the purchase of the software (and CD-key) required to play Dom3 is more expensive than the software of some other games, the stigma of "costly" erodes rapidly when you look closely enough at what you get, for what you pay.


Personally, I find it rare anymore that I purchase a game, and I'm happy with the amount of money exchanged, and what I got. Hell, I bought Sword of the Stars for $15 on Amazon, and I still felt ripped off. :P

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

Nonsense. Your computer is necessary hardware to play any game at all. Therefore, the cost of the initial purchase must be ameliorated out over the cost of each game/hour.

Nonsense. I didn't buy the computer to play games. Whether or not games even existed, I'd still have bought the same laptop. So in my case (and in the case of my friends) that's like claiming you have to factor in the cost of optical prescriptions + a pair of glasses, your normal trainers or years of eating relatively healthy food to work out how much value for money a game of football is.

In your case Sombre, I think it's pretty simple - you can gauge your friends' tastes. Either they won't get deeply enough into Dom3 to appreciate it at its fair price - or they will. I can't imagine that anyone who likes TBS fantasy wouldn't go head over heels for Dom3, just like the rest of us have.

So, while you can argue that the purchase of the software (and CD-key) required to play Dom3 is more expensive than the software of some other games, the stigma of "costly" erodes rapidly when you look closely enough at what you get, for what you pay.

I understand more than most what you get when you buy dom3 and I don't see it as being great value for money, despite it being one of my favourite games. All of my other top 10 games are far cheaper. Most games I would objectively consider better are also cheaper. There are games directly comparable with dom3 (well designed fantasy strategy games with lots of content) which are all a lot cheaper too.

You could say that about any game 'if you get really into it, it will be worth the cost'. It has nothing to do with this discussion. Even if I could convince my friends to take a punt un such an expensive game, which I seriously doubt, I can't be sure that they'd get deeply into it, as with any game. It's far less of a risk for me to ask them to buy a cheaper game. Especially when there are plenty of cheaper games that are as good as dom3.

[Tifone]

Pardon my lol, messieurs. ^^ Another thread about the game price

Well the game isn't surely cheap. But the money are spent for wonderful quality, longevity, a 300 pages manual, years long devs support. So for me it's more than ok, it's great.

Peace ^^

PS. Oh I was forgetting. Being part of a great community

[Beorne]

To Sombre:
Al the other games I cited cost more than Dom3 if you take them complete (with the expansions) and they drop the price when there is a new version out, or when they can bundle it with the expansion (so the price remains almost the same) so it is a fake price lowering. I have observed that this is true for all the good strategic games (I don't play rt or fps). If I want to play a very good civ game I play freeciv, if I buy it I want the last polished and supported version (and for me the "one to last" version with dropped price has almost no value).
I agree with you that the community is not that big and active considering the potential of the game. The publisher could do something to encourage the community (and the modding and bug tracking), that for now is left to the back of you half dozen willing guys. A configured cms on a good domain name (like the mod site of paradox or the site of seV) could resolve almost all the organizing community issues of Dom.